Ys III

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Ys III






Last edited by pepillopev on Mon 8 Oct 2018 - 13:03; edited 25 times in total

pepillopev



Since : 2017-10-16

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Ys III :: Comments

Post on Fri 20 Apr 2018 - 7:36 by pepillopev

To all, I moved all audio normalization discussions into the General Discussion section since it had nothing to do with Ys3 patch, but more to do with best practices regarding WAV file normalization for MSU1 use.

Those comments were moved to:
MSU-1 Hacking->General Discussion->WAV Normalizing Suggestions

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Post on Fri 20 Apr 2018 - 14:05 by edale

pepillopev wrote:@edale It does have SPC fallback code. Rename the file ys3-msu1.msu to ys3-msu1.ms_ and then reopen the ROM in your favorite emulator (tada! it has spc audio! what miracle is this?).
Smile
OK, let me clarify (since I honestly can't tell if you're joking or serious here).

A per-track SPC fallback code.

Basically code that triggers when the game tries to play a new song and checks:
Is there a PCM track?
If yes, mute SPC and play PCM.
Else play SPC.

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Post on Fri 20 Apr 2018 - 14:17 by pepillopev

@edale I see, you want a hybrid SPC/PCM patch with file presence verification. I get you know.

For me, it’s either you want the game in MSU or SPC. What your asking is being picky and I understand your point of view on this. That aside, I’m not interested in doing this, however, you are more than welcome to have someone else edit my ASM to your liking.

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Post on Fri 20 Apr 2018 - 14:29 by edale

pepillopev wrote:@edale I see, you want a hybrid SPC/PCM patch with file presence verification. I get you know.

For me, it’s either you want the game in MSU or SPC. What your asking is being picky and I understand your point of view on this. That aside, I’m not interested in doing this, however, you are more than welcome to have someone else edit my ASM to your liking.
Honestly, the main reason I want that is because I'm working on a TGCD audio PCM pack for this atm, and not having that is making my testing much more difficult than normal... (As in, I probably could have released it last night normally, but at the current rate it'll take another 2-3 days)

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Post on Fri 20 Apr 2018 - 14:32 by pepillopev

I supplied a track list in my PCM set (it’s in Excel format). Maybe that will help you out.

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Post on Fri 20 Apr 2018 - 14:33 by pepillopev

The track list is with the patch zip file.

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Post on Fri 20 Apr 2018 - 17:03 by edale

The tracklist by itself doesn't do as much good as you'd think given that most of the songs sound nothing like the Oath counterparts, so I actually need to go through both SNES and TGCD versions of the game side-by-side to see where most of the audio tracks go.

And then there's the fact that a number of the songs in the TGCD version aren't actually CD quality audio...

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Post on Fri 20 Apr 2018 - 23:38 by edale

@pepillopev If you renormalize your PCMs with the program I linked you to, for this game you want to normalize everything to -21dB, not -18dB.

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Post on Sat 21 Apr 2018 - 0:51 by edale

Here's a fun bug for you:

After Ballancetine Castle and the events with Elena on the bridge, after entering a shop in town, talking to the NPC, and exiting it, instead of track number 28 playing, like it was before entering the building, it's playing track 204 (that should only be called when the secret entrance in Ballancetine Castle's church/altar/whatever is opened).

*edit- Exiting/reentering the town is the only way to get the normal town background music back that I could find, and the bug stops happening after you talk to the Mayor and get the ball of flame.

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Post on Sat 21 Apr 2018 - 5:24 by Relikk

edale wrote:And then there's the fact that a number of the songs in the TGCD version aren't actually CD quality audio...

What is this nonsense? Ohmygod

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Post on Sat 21 Apr 2018 - 7:14 by edale

Relikk wrote:
edale wrote:And then there's the fact that a number of the songs in the TGCD version aren't actually CD quality audio...

What is this nonsense? Ohmygod
The TGCD version of Ys III actually has 3 formats of audio.

-You have the redbook CD quality audio tracks, there are 23 of these (not counting the warning on track 1 that plays if you put the disc in a CD player). 4 of which have spoken dialog in them (Thankfully it was REALLY easy to edit out the spoken dialog in the ending track while keeping it sounding like nothing was done to it), and 1 is a sound-effect that didn't get used (it was supposed to be the final boss's island being destroyed, but the effect didn't fit the animation in the SNES version). Which gave me a total of 19 audio tracks. 2 of these are duplicated (but only to play in place of tracks that have that music but also spoken dialog, my pack has a lot less duplicates than pepillopev's, those are the only duplicates), for 21 tracks total of true CD quality audio. There are 39 PCM tracks total in this MSU-1 mod, this means 18 tracks aren't CD quality audio, thankfully 10 or so of these are just sound effects, but that still leaves around 8 background music tracks that aren't CD quality.

-You also have the ADPCM audio, which is almost CD quality (8-bit, rather than 16-bit), but embedded in the ISO (in a CUE/ISO/WAV backup). Much of the spoken dialog in the game is ADPCM audio with PSG background music (the TGCD system only had 1 ADPCM channel).

-Then you have both 8-bit and 16-bit PSG audio, which is the TG16's equivalent of the SNES's SPC, also embedded in the ISO. This is the type of audio used when it sounds like a MIDI is playing in the background, though the 16-bit PSGs can sound a LOT better than a typical MIDI (http://66.90.93.122/soundfiles/turbografx-16-hes/ys-iii-wanderers-from-ys/28%20Departure%20at%20Sunrise%20%28PSG%29.mp3)



For the PCM pack I'm working on atm, I'm trying to make it as true to a 1-to-1 conversion of the music as possible while removing all the spoken dialog, the sole exception is that I looped the music properly, so song's won't end and restart, they'll just play continuously (the TGCD couldn't loop CD audio, the MSU-1 chip can, and all the tracks have nice loop-points). The only point I can't achieve this is the opening and some of the sound effects (and one background CD audio music track that only exists alongside spoken dialog, I stole pepillopev's Oath in Flahgana track for that one).

I'm basically done with my PCM pack atm, I just need to make one more runthrough on the game to make sure everything's playing where it's supposed to, and all the audio levels are good.

@pepillopev is it possible to use a PCM track for the 'opening a treasure chest' sound effect? The TGCD version uses a different effect than the SNES version, but it's not one of your current PCM tracks.
Here's a PCM of the Oath in Felghana treasure chest sound effect for your pack: https://mega.nz/#!acxhSb7S!bAOZb_Qzeu1gRqjzYA1KvHLZBArAc5INElAYZF7tWqg

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Post on Sat 21 Apr 2018 - 7:20 by Relikk

edale wrote:You have the redbook CD quality audio tracks, there are 23 of these (not counting the warning on track 1 that plays if you put the disc in a CD player). 4 of which have spoken dialog in them (Thankfully it was REALLY easy to edit out the spoken dialog in the ending track while keeping it sounding like nothing was done to it), and 1 is a sound-effect that didn't get used (it was supposed to be the final boss's island being destroyed, but the effect didn't fit the animation in the SNES version). Which gave me a total of 19 audio tracks. 2 of these are duplicated (but only to play in place of tracks that have that music but also spoken dialog, my pack has a lot less duplicates than pepillopev's, those are the only duplicates), for 21 tracks total of true CD quality audio. There are 39 PCM tracks total in this MSU-1 mod, this means 18 tracks aren't CD quality audio, thankfully 10 or so of these are just sound effects, but that still leaves around 8 background music tracks that aren't CD quality.

-You also have the ADPCM audio, which is almost CD quality (8-bit, rather than 16-bit), but embedded in the ISO (in a CUE/ISO/WAV backup). Much of the spoken dialog in the game is ADPCM audio with PSG background music (the TGCD system only had 1 ADPCM channel).

Your original wording confused me a little, but yes, that makes sense.

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Post on Sat 21 Apr 2018 - 9:25 by pepillopev

@edale I’m aware of the town bug. I noticed it in Shiryu’s YouTube video post shortly after releasing it. I just have not had good quality time to address it.

As for the chest theme, I chose to ignored it since I had no modern sample of it to use at the time of coding, so I left the SNES version intact.

If you want to use the TG-CD sample for your set, I can code it in. But again, time permitting. And thanks for providing the Oath of Felghana treasure chest sample.

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Post on Sat 21 Apr 2018 - 15:00 by edale

I figured you probably didn't have that effect, given I couldn't find a rip of it ANYWHERE. The only 'modern' version of Ys 3's chest jingle that I could find a rip of that from was the PS2 version, and it sounded VERY different from what was used in Oath.

So I did what any OCD guy with too much time on their hands would do... I fired my copy of Oath up, played to a chest, and used Audacity to recorded it from gameplay, lol.


Oh, one advantage of doing by-track PCM verification and SPC fallback coding is you don't need to individually code in each new track into the ASM. You have the one check that runs every time a track/sfx is set to play (only muting SPC if the PCM is present), and after that it's just making sure you have the PCM's numbered properly (unless some tracks need special handling, such as how Dancing Mad is one song split into 4 loops and 1 non-looping section in FFVI). Note I don't actually know ASM, and don't know if some games music coding prevents a system like that from working, although I do have a firm grasp on programing logic. not saying you need to recode this, but something to consider for your next project.

Oh, do you know what track number the chest effect would be? So I can include it in the PCM pack I'm making even if it doesn't work with the mod just yet.

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Post on Sat 21 Apr 2018 - 15:38 by pepillopev

edale wrote:Oh, one advantage of doing by-track PCM verification and SPC fallback coding is you don't need to individually code in each new track into the ASM.

Yeah, I suppose so but, to me, it is not that difficult to add a couple of more lines of code. Sometimes, if a game has a more structured track approach and enough ROM space (for example, Ninja Gaiden Trilogy or Axelay), I'll use data tables that can add msu support for any given track without adding additional code (no pcm file verification needed). I know ROMs can be expanded, but I'm lazy, and it is an extra step I do not want to worry about.

Again, the 'file by file verification' approach is a good idea, in principle, but there are many other ways to get to the finish line. In the end, it is a programmers's choice. For me, my goal is get MSU working on a game. If anyone else wants to add additional stuff to my asm code to make it easier to map tracks to the end user, go right ahead.

The only SPC fallback I will do is check for the presence of the *.msu file, that is all (if not there, play original spc music. If there, play PCM music). Any SPC fallback always depends on the game itself. Some games need to be hard muted, thus, making the file by file verification approach, pretty much, useless.

Last edited by pepillopev on Sat 21 Apr 2018 - 16:16; edited 8 times in total

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Post on Sat 21 Apr 2018 - 15:39 by pepillopev

@edale The updated patch is posted at the top. The obtained item theme (opening chest or getting a new item) is mapped to ys3-msu1-8.pcm.

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Post on Sat 21 Apr 2018 - 16:49 by edale

I'll check it out!

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Post on Sat 21 Apr 2018 - 17:50 by edale

When beating the second boss in the quarry (right before rescuing the mayor), the obtained item jingle doesn't play when you get The Sun Statue.

srm right before boss fight: https://mega.nz/#!6JZQhZpY!I-W5mnAG_4r4G4uW0LGzQuih8y7WEBriC3gJdeRWC1o

7E1294FF - this code will give you infinite HP so you can beat the boss easy. (you might need to turn the code off after beating a boss when it tries to refill your HP)

Also hit that town theme bug again (with the new patch) when returning to town after rescuing the mayor.

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Post on Sat 21 Apr 2018 - 18:02 by pepillopev

@edale It plays for me on BsnesPlus (I do not use Snes9x). Send me a save state just before you defeat him for Snes9x and I will take a look.

video showing it plays on both Snes9x and Bsnes, added new video to same link below:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/e3cov02lumw01r3/AABdO58ANsMb5jMJasuT5FyGa?dl=0

Last edited by pepillopev on Sat 21 Apr 2018 - 18:16; edited 1 time in total

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Post on Sat 21 Apr 2018 - 18:13 by edale

https://mega.nz/#!XdoXAKxJ!ziwOdMir3HjwGbCS0gJeJedHpCPUa10WiBPpy_4xc6Y

Snes9x v1.55 savestate a hit or two away from beating that boss.

The jingle didn't trigger when getting the Firedragon's Amulet after the first boss in the lava section either.

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Post on Sat 21 Apr 2018 - 18:17 by pepillopev

@edale Look at the the new video I just posted (previous post has the link). It also works on Snes9x too. Are you using save states and an old srm file? You have to start fresh to ensure the new patch takes full effect.

another video added to same link below:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/e3cov02lumw01r3/AABdO58ANsMb5jMJasuT5FyGa?dl=0

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Post on Sat 21 Apr 2018 - 18:34 by pepillopev

@edale As I stated before, if you are using Snes9x, you have to start fresh (delete old srm file and using no old save states). I used old savestates with the old patch using the newly patched rom and it did not take.

The town bug is squashed (I was not able to reproduce it easily like before, again, started fresh on Snes9x and BsnesPlus). The same applies to the treasure chest jingle. Start Snes9x fresh.

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Post on Sat 21 Apr 2018 - 18:36 by edale

I started fresh, and am not using savestates at all this run.

Jingle didn't trigger when getting the second Statue from the second Lava area boss (behind the statue after the events with Elena).

It's looking like for whatever reason the jingle isn't triggering for me from items gained after boss fights.

I'll try completely deleting everything and starting over fresh again.

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Post on Sat 21 Apr 2018 - 18:47 by edale

Yea, starting fresh did nothing to fix this.

Are you using the x86 or the x64 release, I'm using the x64 one. https://github.com/snes9xgit/snes9x/releases

Last edited by edale on Sat 21 Apr 2018 - 18:50; edited 1 time in total

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Post on Sat 21 Apr 2018 - 18:49 by pepillopev

@edale Ok, did you patch version 1.1 over a new clean ROM (not over the old v1.0 one)? Did you ensure the ys3-msu1-8.pcm file is present (otherwise, it will be mute). It works for me on both emulators.

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