Final Fantasy 5

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Post by Conn on Fri 6 Dec 2019 - 20:00

No reason, just human error. Can you add the line? I'm on my mobile where such stuff is hard to add

Edit: noticed you added the line, but the Dec 40, 41... Are wrong now I think, you'd need to shift the row one up and add track 71
Conn
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Post by edale on Sat 7 Dec 2019 - 0:18

Nice find that I don't want to lose:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrAnAuCxdBg

Pretty sure that's the only real-instrument version of the piano lesson tracks that has ever been made, lol. It even has all the inbuilt mistakes, lol.

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Post by edale on Sat 7 Dec 2019 - 0:55

OK, track mapping done!

One weird thing...
OSV has 67 tracks (playlist most of my links are to only has up to 60, but the other 7 are just the rest of the Piano Lessons).
Game has 66 tracks, 4 SFX's, and 1 silent track.
And I can't figure out what's on the OSV that I haven't mapped....

I'll start looking for a good remaster or orchestration of the soundtrack sometime in the next few days. This isn't really very high on my priority list, so I'm probably not going to be done with the PCMs in 2-3 days like I'd usually manage; expect more like 2 weeks, and be pleasantly surprised if I get done faster, lol.

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Post by Conn on Sat 7 Dec 2019 - 6:34

One weird thing...
OSV has 67 tracks (playlist most of my links are to only has up to 60, but the other 7 are just the rest of the Piano Lessons).
Game has 66 tracks, 4 SFX's, and 1 silent track.
And I can't figure out what's on the OSV that I haven't mapped....
So you are missing one theme?
The game has 67 tracks (you have a track with index 0) Wink maybe that's your problem, so 72 in total (67+4sfx+1silent).

Edit:
I added the non-loop tracks into the code to play only once, please download v5 from first post.

Can you maybe also give a description for the sfx in your tracklist, if possible? Like 3e is the meteroid falling at the beginning? There are maybe people that wish to substitute that sound also with a better one Very Happy
Conn
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Post by edale on Sat 7 Dec 2019 - 9:35

Stares at track 0.
DOH!!!
I R failed at counting.


The problem with naming the SFX is figuring out how to describe them. Some of them just plain old defy description...
Naming the SFX gets MUCH easier on a playthrough where I can see what the SFX are actually trying to sound like (which is complicated by SNES games sometimes using the same SFX for drastically different things...).

And the problem with replacing them is that whole 2 PCM tracks playing at the same time thing I mentioned earlier (FFVI had like 10 SFX tracks, but only 4 of them were actually able to be PCMed thanks to this issue). I'm pretty sure I can hear 2 or 3 of the 4 SFX tracks playing at the same time just in the opening sequences of the game (while the meteor is falling)... I usually find it easiest to just leave SFX tracks untouched until/unless I can verify they never play at the same time as any other tracks in-game... or if there's no SPC fallback forcing them to be PCMed.

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Post by Conn on Sat 7 Dec 2019 - 10:13

Out of my experience, these sfx cannot be played together with another track, since the routine I hacked only allows a single theme played at a time (but feel free to prove me wrong Wink )
I'm not sure if other sfx are played together, maybe it is possible to give the pcm the value 11 to see whether other sfx are played simultaneously. Just checked 3e with this technique, no other sfx/spc is played here.

I think a playthrough reveals this issue if there is one, which is the next step after pcm creation, along with me fixing a dozens of bugs

If it is not overlapping with other pcm:s (what I expect), it is maybe possible to map it like follow:


hex   dec    loop    description               youtube

3e     62     yes      Meteroid   https://youtu.be/Z0RtcAi94bQ?t=358

But this is only a suggestion Smile
Conn
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Post by edale on Sat 7 Dec 2019 - 11:04

In the SNES, the SPC audio has 8 channels to work with.

A lot of times you'll see points where a song is playing, and an SFX plays at the same time by having the song taking up 6-7 channels, and the SFX taking up 1-2. They'll have a full 8 channel SFX track, but only use some parts of it depending on the exact sfx they're trying to make (I really hope that's the reason for the high-pitched squeaking I can hear in track 46, which I'm pretty sure is supposed to be waves, it just wouldn't use the channel that squeaking is on for when it needed to use the wave SFX).

MSU can't duplicate this, but when a PCM is playing a song, if there's SPC fallback and no PCM for the SFX track, the SPC for that SFX will still play whatever channels of the SPC were called.
But if you have PCMs for both the song and the SFX, then you get a conflict when it tries to play the SFX, and it's hit or miss on what effect that'll have (depending on exactly how the MSU was coded in for that game). I've seen cases where the music plays and it skips the SFX, cases where it mutes the music and the SFX plays, cases where all sound gets muted, and one case where it crashed the game...

I just find it all around easier to completely ignore SFX tracks until everything else with a MSU project is pretty much finished up and tested. That way it's MUCH easier to spot when/where an SFX's PCM is causing problems.

All that said, I did throw some tentative descriptions on each of the SFX tracks.

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Post by Conn on Sat 7 Dec 2019 - 11:19

All is correct, however I suspect those 4 "SFX" tracks are not handled as sfx but spc tracks. So you could convert them into pcm.
However, I guess final clarification and the possibilities to deal with them will be found during playtesting, so we have to wait what this reveals. In any case we have spc fallback and no objections leaving those tracks spc (so or so it will be hard to find pcm substitutes)
Conn
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Post by edale on Sat 7 Dec 2019 - 18:55

I've asked Dracula9AntiChapel, on his youtube, for permission to use his FFV remaster for this; we'll see what he says.


Last edited by edale on Mon 9 Dec 2019 - 0:39; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Conn on Sun 8 Dec 2019 - 5:15

Let's cross fingers Wink I hope there are alternatives if he says no...
However I expect some bugs and hope you can playtest somehow (maybe with FF3 or FF4 set?). E.g., right at the beginning when rescuing the first girl there is a mute which was really hard to code. I hope there are not so many exceptions like this...
Conn
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Post by edale on Sun 8 Dec 2019 - 5:59

I'll be able to spot obvious problems, but it's been more than 20 years since I played FFV, so I'm not gonna be able to spot things like the wrong song playing at certain points and such.

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Post by Conn on Sun 8 Dec 2019 - 6:21

The song triggers should be alright, if you playtest you can use $2004 write hook to verify the correct theme playing in bsnes, and parallel watch a youtube longplay (that also helps with the playtest since you know what to do).
I see more issues in the game behaviour, like muting at some points and restart playing... such stuff.

It's a pitty that darthvaderx hasn't shown up in last time, he is really good at detecting such stuff (I did the ff4 stuff with him).
Conn
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Post by edale on Sun 8 Dec 2019 - 14:34

Honestly, when I'm playtesting an MSU mod I typically cheat my ass off, lol. I'll max my levels and stats, max my gold, max out my consumables, disable random encounters, etc. so I can just zoom through the game checking the music (while playtesting I've gotten through a complete round of FFVI in under 2 hours). Lets me skip like 60% of what would be in a let's play.

The REAL trick is grabbing craptons of SRM saves (not savestates) at various locations, so I can quickly get anywhere in the game in less than 5 min to test stuff.

Using a non-commentary let's play to verify how stuff is supposed to sound IS a good idea though...

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Post by edale on Mon 9 Dec 2019 - 1:02

And we have permission from Dracula9AntiChapel, with one proviso... He gets to be one of the first to play the mod. Very Happy

I've asked for FLAC copies, which are normally behind a $7 paywall on bandcamp (yes, I'm poor enough to not be able to afford that), we'll see if that pans out; if not I can rip MP3s from the youtube videos... Disgust

*edit- I'm giving it until Wednesday for Dracula9AntiChapel to reply with my request for FLAC, and if I've not heard from him by then I'm going to start working with MP3's I ripped from bandcamp. They're 128 kbps, so a bit below what I'd prefer working with, but still much better than youtube rips.

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Post by edale on Mon 16 Dec 2019 - 18:33

Quick update: I'm about 1/2 way done looping and converting the PCM's, with 33 tracks converted so far.

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Post by Conn on Mon 16 Dec 2019 - 19:49

Awesome! Do you already test the game whether bugs are present?
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Post by edale on Mon 16 Dec 2019 - 19:56

Haven't touched the game since mapping the tracks, I'll work on that after I finish the PCM set.

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Post by Day2Data on Tue 17 Dec 2019 - 5:07

Bless you. Shameless plug for my favorite remixes. RebeccaETripp has a great rendition of "Unknown Lands" called Galuf's World. The two "FFV - The Fabled Warriors" albums are good, but incomplete.
It's fantastic that Dracula9 has put the time in to complete the whole soundtrack, I wasn't aware of this prior to this twig.
Cheers, thank you.
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Post by edale on Wed 18 Dec 2019 - 23:41

Status update and guestemated PCM set release date:

All tracks but the Piano Lessons looped and converted.

The 8 Piano Lessons are all in one track, without any dead time between them (at least the timing seems identical, so I won't have to mess with speed and tempo changes), so separating them out into individual tracks is gonna be a fair amount of editing work. Nothing major, just a LOT of minor tweaking.

I'd say give me 2 days to get the Piano Lesson tracks done, then another day or two for some quick testing on the audio normalization levels needed, and I'll have the v1.0 PCM set ready to release. Long story short, expect the PCM set to be out around Monday.

That said, I may get bored and hammer the whole thing out tomorrow, or even later tonight, so don't be surprised if it shows up sooner.


---

@Day2Data, Dracula9AntiChapel remasters full OSTs and OSVs, it's just sheer luck that every single mappable track, save the SFX tracks but including things like the fanfares and sleeping jingle, was in the FFV OSV.

After the playtesting is done I may convert those album's tracks for you, if you really want them, but I'd need a link to them, and there's no promises that I'd ever actually get around to doing it.

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Post by Day2Data on Thu 19 Dec 2019 - 2:47

@edale, Heard. Thanks for the offer of more labor, but I will attempt to do the tracks myself, just for personal use if nothing else.

They may not be in a correct tempo or necessarily fit in with Dracula9AntiChapel's OST remaster. For me it's alright, but other people may not like the drastic remixes.
RebeccaETripp "Galuf's World"
The Fabled Warriors: Wind
The Fabled Warriors: Water

RebeccaETripp's Orchestral Medley


Last edited by Day2Data on Fri 20 Dec 2019 - 2:26; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : RebeccaETripp has another piece relating to Final Fantasy 5... a medley!)
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Post by edale on Thu 19 Dec 2019 - 3:12

Day2Data wrote:@edale, Heard. Thanks for the offer of more labor, but I will attempt to do the tracks myself, just for personal use if nothing else.

They may not be in a correct tempo or necessarily fit in with Dracula9AntiChapel's OST remaster. For me it's alright, but other people may not like the drastic remixes.
RebeccaETripp "Galuf's World"
The Fabled Warriors: Wind
The Fabled Warriors: Water
Galuf's World is nice, and would probably work quite nicely in-game, but the 2 Fabled Warriors albums? Yea, those ones won't work in-game at all.

There are a number of reasons thematically alone, to the point that most of the tracks are literally unrecognizable for what each track is supposed to be a remix of... But the real issue, from a technical standpoint, is they're not loopable, not hearing a single usable loop point in any of the tracks I've listened to.

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Post by Conn on Thu 19 Dec 2019 - 6:41


That said, I may get bored and hammer the whole thing out tomorrow, or even later tonight, so don't be surprised if it shows up sooner.
That's awesome! I hope there won't be any big surprises during playtesting the complete stuff Wink
Conn
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Post by Day2Data on Thu 19 Dec 2019 - 15:25

edale wrote:There are a number of reasons thematically alone, to the point that most of the tracks are literally unrecognizable for what each track is supposed to be a remix of... But the real issue, from a technical standpoint, is they're not loopable, not hearing a single usable loop point in any of the tracks I've listened to.
Understood. For numerous reasons, I enjoy Final Fantasy V to a level where I'm willing to do some extra creative stuff for my own personal enjoyment.
I've done a fair amount of music/audio, and for me, I'll end up trying to add acceptable loop-points by editing the remixed tracks inside of Ableton.
I've seen the cut-scenes in FFV so many times, I'd pay someone to hack them out. With my skill-set being music, my best option is to side-by-side the cut-scene visuals, with the audio of remixes(after much research), and essentially re-score the cut-scenes to have a more dramatic effect, or to theme moments with drastic changes in music.
I'm fairly confident in my ability to make creative edits regarding most musical applications, including adding viable loop points. Whether or not the changes would be appreciated by others, really isn't my concern when forgoing such a tedious task.
I digress, too much info than you are probably interested in.
Either way, I want to thank you all for doing a tremendous service, you are much appreciated.
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Post by edale on Thu 19 Dec 2019 - 20:51

OK, PCM set is done and currently uploading. I'll edit the link here when it's done uploading in 30 min or so. (667 MB RARed, 1 GB unzipped)

PCM set v1.0: https://mega.nz/#!aMBRgY5Z!AKjLQgEJ86LvddeEVsGAfMDa9V0o8hrSkMzS2OT9kgQ
PCM set v1.1: https://mega.nz/#!WMI3wS4A!ZuNN3fGYTf2Mla255UNrGQKBqLBgNBnapEOFKfJV_pE
(audio renormalized from -18 dbsf to -21 dbfs)

I did some quick testing for normalization, and it seems good where it's at, but our first bug prevented me from fully testing it.

In the opening sequence, after the meteor falls, the SFX for the meteor falling never stops. It's even going during the first battle.

Some quick testing:
Copying one of the 8 second Piano Lesson tracks and renaming the copy to track 62 had both the Piano Lesson and the Meteor falling SPC playing, but the meteor falling SFX ended where it was supposed to.

Making a blank txt file and renaming it to track 62 had the meteor falling SFX playing, and it didn't stop when it was supposed to.

Making a 10ish second PCM of silence and naming it to track 62 had the meteor falling SFX play and end as it's supposed to.

Obviously having a blank PCM where there shouldn't be one isn't the ideal solution, especially if the track ends up called later on in the game as well, so I leave this issue to your debugging and coding skills @Conn.

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Post by Conn on Fri 20 Dec 2019 - 6:26

Oh yes, it is because the next pcm (in this case -35.pcm) does not stop the spc (try it by renaming track35 so it isn't found, then all is good). It should be a really easy bugfix, I'll take care of it later (I usually have little time pre-christmas).
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