Future of Zeldix Magic

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Future of Zeldix Magic

Post by wizzrobemaster on Tue 25 Jul 2017 - 6:04

Is Zeldix Magic going to be another cancelled/on indefinite hiatus project like Black Magic or is there going to be anyone who is going to continue it?

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Re: Future of Zeldix Magic

Post by Puzzledude on Tue 25 Jul 2017 - 6:21

wizzrobemaster wrote:Is Zeldix Magic going to be another cancelled/on indefinite hiatus project like Black Magic or is there going to be anyone who is going to continue it?
My guess is the first option. Every "real" ALTTP hacker will know how to make a quality hack with Hyrule Magic, which is so far the only program with the dungeon editor. BM did not have one line of code written on dungeon editing (it could only open the rooms), the same for ZM, which had every possible thing addressed, even music editing, but not dungeon editing (which should be the first thing to make in an editor).
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Re: Future of Zeldix Magic

Post by wizzrobemaster on Tue 25 Jul 2017 - 6:35

That is unfortunate really. I was really hoping for a more stable program. I have done room editing and not realizing that one room gets bugged.

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Re: Future of Zeldix Magic

Post by SunGodPortal on Tue 25 Jul 2017 - 17:34

Yeah, too bad. Hyrule Magic is trash. The point of such an editor is for the user to avoid having to do things manually through hex, debugging and ASM. Even being incredibly careful, being well versed in HM's nature and having an intimate familiarity with the ROM is not enough. I think it finally killed my desire to work on this game a month or two ago when I got about halfway through another version of BCvsG and started having bugs with things I didn't even edit. Again, Hyrule Magic is trash.
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Re: Future of Zeldix Magic

Post by Puzzledude on Tue 25 Jul 2017 - 17:57

Hyrule Magic is trash. When I got about halfway through another version of BCvsG and started having bugs with things I didn't even edited.
That's because the Bruce Campbel hack pretty much has the same data structure as the original game, thus packed down tight. When I was making the IQ hack series, I first removed/emptied around 70 indoor rooms. I never had any bugs/problems on dungeon editing on this Rom. So you see, the editor is not really trash, it just can not handle the amount of data, that ALTTP originally has, among other things.

I think it finally killed my desire to work on this game a month or two ago.
That is a shame, specially due to your high rank on this forum.
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Re: Future of Zeldix Magic

Post by SunGodPortal on Tue 25 Jul 2017 - 18:54

So you see, the editor is not really trash, it just can not handle the amount of data, that ALTTP originally has, among other things.

But if it can't be used the way nearly every user intends to use it then it is simply not good enough. It's a shame because I'm proud of the redesigns I've done for the rebuild of Bruce and have had a blast playing the new dungeons.

Still, Hyrule Magic has too many bugs for to want to use it anymore. It's ironic that the editor that allows for mods of this game to even be possible is also the exact reason why there are so few finished hacks of this game. Not because of the scope of the game itself, but because the only "functioning" editor often mangles one's work and creates unnecessary complications due to Sephiroth3's oversights and stubbornness.

That is a shame, specially due to your high rank on this forum.

I'm sure they can find someone else who still has the necessary passion. I think it's time that I finally admit that my ambitions with this game are dead.
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Re: Future of Zeldix Magic

Post by Puzzledude on Tue 25 Jul 2017 - 19:06

Still, Hyrule Magic has too many bugs for to want to use it anymore.
That's understandable. Maybe you will like Lunar Magic more, which is a complete editor, not bugged and constantly updated. Or maybe something else.

I'm sure they can find someone else who still has the necessary passion. I think it's time that I finally admit that my ambitions with this game are dead.
Yes, like said, too bad. Seems like we will have some retirements this year, which is nevertheless understandable.
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Re: Future of Zeldix Magic

Post by wizzrobemaster on Wed 26 Jul 2017 - 6:08

One thing I was hoping was that ZM would have a better organized tile set. That was one reason why I stopped working on the editor. I decided to wait until the editor was finished, but in the end it was nothing but false hope.

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Re: Future of Zeldix Magic

Post by superskuj on Fri 28 Jul 2017 - 9:30

It doesn't appear to be dead, but its future is a little unclear. Hopefully we can provide more information soon but don't lose hope just yet!

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Re: Future of Zeldix Magic

Post by wizzrobemaster on Fri 28 Jul 2017 - 11:29

superskuj wrote:It doesn't appear to be dead, but its future is a little unclear. Hopefully we can provide more information soon but don't lose hope just yet!

One thing about ZM over BM is that the source code is at least known that anyone can still continue the project right?

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Re: Future of Zeldix Magic

Post by Puzzledude on Fri 28 Jul 2017 - 13:30

One thing about ZM over BM is that the source code is at least known that anyone can still continue the project right?
It doesn't appear to be dead, but its future is a little unclear. Hopefully we can provide more information soon but don't lose hope just yet!
Indeed, however I think the most vital element (that is dungeon editing) was not addressed by both editors. Before any (new) editor would be fully functional and debugged, most of us here will probably be retired. The editor is actually made for starting a hack. Thus a complete hack made with either BM or ZM is at best 2 decades away. Thus any ALTTP modder today should know to not relly on these editors and rather use a combo of HM and smart hex editing, as well as independent gfx editors to get the job done.
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Re: Future of Zeldix Magic

Post by wizzrobemaster on Fri 28 Jul 2017 - 20:06

One thing I was hoping was to see a better organized tile set. In terms of tile editing did HM lack anything or have limitations? I wanted to edit the over world, but the trees were probably the most complicated tile set to get around.

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Re: Future of Zeldix Magic

Post by SunGodPortal on Fri 28 Jul 2017 - 23:29

wizzrobemaster wrote:One thing I was hoping was to see a better organized tile set.  In terms of tile editing did HM lack anything or have limitations?  I wanted to edit the over world, but the trees were probably the most complicated tile set to get around.

It wasn't too complicated if you paid close attention to the mirroring but I could see how it would take a bit for someone to completely wrap their head around how that stuff works.
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Re: Future of Zeldix Magic

Post by wizzrobemaster on Sat 29 Jul 2017 - 7:01

One thing I was trying to work on was to move a cave entrance near the Magic Shop. The problem is that some of the tiles share the trees. Another situation was re-designing the Tower of Hera to make the dungeon rooms more interesting. As part of a test hack, I mad the Death Mountain tunnels part of the dungeon. My point is that editing a room can take a long time to make sure the tile set levels are correct and you are not going over the limit that will cause rom corruption. If ZM or BM was going to finished, then what would have been different?

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Re: Future of Zeldix Magic

Post by Puzzledude on Sat 29 Jul 2017 - 7:09

One thing I was hoping was to see a better organized tile set. In terms of tile editing did HM lack anything or have limitations? I wanted to edit the over world, but the trees were probably the most complicated tile set to get around.
I believe I actually told you this before: this is how the game was/is made. The tree parts (which were drawn) are gfx-disassembled into the horizontal tile set, just to be assembled later. No editor can change the complex nature of overworld editing unfortunately. The only thing the editor could made a bit easier is to rather insert only 16x16 and thus renounce on 32x32 tiles, however the latter are also a direct part of the hex code, so... Infact, all conversions from the smallest tiles (gfx), to middle tiles and middle to big tiles are recorded in a hex string, with properties, as well as mirroring and on-top properties. So the code is pretty much as you see it in HM.
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Re: Future of Zeldix Magic

Post by wizzrobemaster on Sat 29 Jul 2017 - 8:13

So if a new editor replaced HM, then it would not be much different outside of its stability?

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Re: Future of Zeldix Magic

Post by Nalwonk on Sat 29 Jul 2017 - 11:29

Wait, what happened? I'd been following this every so often, but I must have missed whatever happened that this discussion is related to...

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Re: Future of Zeldix Magic

Post by Puzzledude on Sat 29 Jul 2017 - 11:44

So if a new editor replaced HM, then it would not be much different outside of its stability?
Yes, specially the overworld editing would be the same, ie difficult.

Wait, what happened? I'd been following this every so often, but I must have missed whatever happened that this discussion is related to...
The new editor for ALTTP called Zeldix magic seems to be on hold, or at least seems to be discontinued by its original author.
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Re: Future of Zeldix Magic

Post by wizzrobemaster on Sat 29 Jul 2017 - 11:56

Nalwonk wrote:Wait, what happened?  I'd been following this every so often, but I must have missed whatever happened that this discussion is related to...

Pretty much the original author who was working it simply left Zeldix with a sudden surprise.

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Re: Future of Zeldix Magic

Post by SunGodPortal on Sat 29 Jul 2017 - 14:37

wizzrobemaster wrote:
Nalwonk wrote:Wait, what happened?  I'd been following this every so often, but I must have missed whatever happened that this discussion is related to...

Pretty much the original author who was working it simply left Zeldix with a sudden surprise.

If what I heard was true it is still under development, the author just had his accounts hacked recently and all this was just someone's idea of fun.
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Re: Future of Zeldix Magic

Post by wizzrobemaster on Sat 29 Jul 2017 - 14:57

SunGodPortal wrote:
wizzrobemaster wrote:
Nalwonk wrote:Wait, what happened?  I'd been following this every so often, but I must have missed whatever happened that this discussion is related to...

Pretty much the original author who was working it simply left Zeldix with a sudden surprise.

If what I heard was true it is still under development, the author just had his accounts hacked recently and all this was just someone's idea of fun.

So his account was not intended to be deleted? If so, whoever did it is a pretty nasty troll.

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Re: Future of Zeldix Magic

Post by Puzzledude on Sat 29 Jul 2017 - 16:23

If what I heard was true it is still under development, the author just had his accounts hacked recently and all this was just someone's idea of fun.
How do you know that? No one was able to find out what actually happened.
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Re: Future of Zeldix Magic

Post by superskuj on Sat 29 Jul 2017 - 16:57

We're not 100% sure what happened here. I can confirm that he's still working on ZM, and he's recently made decent progress on the dungeon editor part of it.

I'll try to keep you guys informed of any major updates and hopefully there won't be any more weirdness around the project.

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Re: Future of Zeldix Magic

Post by wizzrobemaster on Sat 29 Jul 2017 - 17:00

superskuj wrote:We're not 100% sure what happened here. I can confirm that he's still working on ZM, and he's recently made decent progress on the dungeon editor part of it.

I'll try to keep you guys informed of any major updates and hopefully there won't be any more weirdness around the project.

If this is true, then that is quite a scare.

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Re: Future of Zeldix Magic

Post by wizzrobemaster on Sat 19 Aug 2017 - 3:14

is there any update so far?

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Re: Future of Zeldix Magic

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