MSU 1 for..... the megadrive ! The Mega SD

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Post by Polargames on Sat 24 Aug 2019 - 17:38

Relikk wrote:Talking to a guy on Discord earlier, he managed to get Streets Of Rage to run with CD audio using an emulator called Regen that has a debugger.

https://www.romhacking.net/utilities/758/


I just gave it a shot, and it does work. It does well in the music, sounds like snes9x kinda. The volume does need to be worked on in the emulator thought. Its to low IMO. Also when you replay the game, then you get no music at all. Might be a emulator issue, and do not try to redo the button input for said emulator because the program freezes and then crashes.

Besides the emulator issues, It plays well. I hope soon more stable emulators will get this. I think it might take off bigger then MSU1, but I just taking a shot in the dark. :-) Relikk, is the music for said addon eaiser, or is it the same for a normal MSU pcms?
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Post by Relikk on Sat 24 Aug 2019 - 17:45

At the moment, it's easier as they're just straight-up WAV files and a CUE file. There's no capability to loop at a specific point yet, though. All it can do is loop the track once it's finished, and it does it perfectly, but it's not ideal for continuous music.
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Post by Relikk on Sat 24 Aug 2019 - 19:23

Here's the (untested) patch for SoR2: LINK

CUE file: LINK

Source: LINK 1, LINK 2
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Post by Polargames on Sun 25 Aug 2019 - 2:30

I will give this one a shot, and I will let you know how it goes. :-)
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Post by Relikk on Sun 25 Aug 2019 - 6:59

Tested it now, works great. Made a music pack from the Streets of Rage Remake game.

Latest patch: LINK

Remake OST Link: MD+ Streets Of Rage (Remake OST)



The music sounds a lot louder in that video than it does on my MegaSD + VA0 Japanese Mega Drive. Maybe it's a Mega SG thing.
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Post by Polargames on Sun 25 Aug 2019 - 17:22

@Relikk, Wow, that sounds great. Its very clear and fluid. It could be a Mega SD thing, hopefully it can be fixed with a firmware update. I do have to say though the game play looks very smooth and the HD on it looks great. How does it play? Could someone tell a difference from a OG Mega Drive?
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Post by pepillopev on Sun 25 Aug 2019 - 17:24

@Polargames The CD audio volume on the MegaSG can be adjusted on the fly. It is up to the MegaSG user's preference.

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Post by Polargames on Sun 25 Aug 2019 - 17:26

@Pepv, Oh I did not know that. I thought it could been a software issue.
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Post by pepillopev on Sun 25 Aug 2019 - 17:29

@Polargames That is one thing I like about Analogue's MegaSG (not to be confused with TerraOnion's MegaSD), you can change the FM audio settings to closely match the Genesis system you grew up with. Most of the arguments now is to what Genesis sounds best (Model1,2,3, etc). So, I am glad Kevtris gave us the power to tweak the FM audio (including the CD audio volume).

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Post by Polargames on Sun 25 Aug 2019 - 23:55

@PepevI understand,you like how they give the person 100% control on your taste for games, Turn it up for games that are by default to low and turn it down for games that are a bit to loud by default.

Does Analogue's Super Nt have the same configuration also?
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Post by pepillopev on Mon 26 Aug 2019 - 9:21

@polargames As far as I know for the superNT, no (do not recall seeing advance audio settings on it). The Sega Genesis went through so many revisions and at some point, the FM chip that produces the sweet chip tunes was changed resulting in audio sounding different. Plus, the original FM chip had some hardware flaws that programmers exploited to get some sweet sounding tunes that could not be reproduced in later FM chip models (Genesis Model 2 and 3).

I never knew this because my whole life I owned the original Altered Beast version Genesis (initial release). When I sold my good old Genesis and bought a new one (a Model 2), that is when I noticed something was wrong. Did my research which led me to RetroRGB and discovered what the fuss was about.

This is what led me to buy a MegaSG for this reason. Once Kevtris/Analogue revealed that the audio settings can be tweaked, that sold me. Now, I have my MegaSG tweaked to sound as close to my original Sega Genesis (not quite there, but close enough). But then again, my ears are not the same as the 14 year old me, lol.

Keep in mind, many people grew up with a Model 2 and did not know any better, at first. Early adopters, like myself, picked up on what was going on and discovered the whole history behind the Sega Genesis audio controversy once a different model was used. Hell, I even remember when playing on Genecyst emulator, I knew the audio was not exactly correct (at least, to my ears).

Anyhow, this debate will go on for a very long time. I think RetroRGB and others are collecting audio samples from various genesis models to use for developing a hardware solution mod to make all consoles sound the best they can be.

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Post by Polargames on Mon 26 Aug 2019 - 15:45

@Pepv Wow, I did not know that at all. I did not have a Genesis when I was a kid, I was more of a Nintendo and Play station kinda person. But I did play one, Model 2 thought.

I would like to know why Sega messed with the FM chip? It seems odd to me why they would do that. The only reason I could see would be the company that made the chip could of went out of business.

Although I never had one, I like how Sega did things, I really wished though  that the in house fighting between the US and Japan headquarters did not happen, and they did not keep turning out the add on's, and the 32x, which could one say was a striped down version of the Saturn?  I think then the dream cast would of lasted a lot longer. I really liked the dream cast.


Last edited by Polargames on Mon 26 Aug 2019 - 15:46; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling error)
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Post by Relikk on Tue 27 Aug 2019 - 15:23

A very similar case to the SID chip in the Commodore 64. I think the later revision "fixed" a bug, but it sounded a little different, thus people ended up preferring and seeking out the original chip instead.
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Post by Polargames on Tue 27 Aug 2019 - 22:00

@Relikk, Wow, that I also did not know also. I never played a Commodore 64, so that might be why, but I have seen one in person. Heck my first PC game was on DOS lol. What type of bug was it? Did it interfere with game play and/or system stability?
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Post by Relikk on Wed 28 Aug 2019 - 11:29

A small excerpt from the Wikipedia article about the chip...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOS_Technology_6581

Due to imperfect manufacturing technologies of the time and poor separation between the analog and digital parts of the chip, the 6581's output (before the amplifier stage) was always slightly biased from the zero level. Each time the volume register was altered, an audible click was produced. By quickly adjusting the amplifier's gain through the main 4-bit volume register, this bias could be modulated as PCM, resulting in a "virtual" fourth channel allowing 4-bit digital sample playback. The glitch was known and used from an early point on, first by Electronic Speech Systems to produce sampled speech in games such as Impossible Mission (1983, Epyx) and Ghostbusters (1984, Activision). The first instance of samples being used in actual musical compositions was by Martin Galway in Arkanoid (1987, Imagine), although he had copied the idea from an earlier drum synthesizer package called Digidrums. The length of sampled sound playback was limited first by memory and later technique. Kung Fu Fighting (1986), a popular early sample, has a playback length measured in seconds. c64mp3 (2010) and Cubase64 (2010) demonstrate playback lengths measured in minutes. Also, it was hugely CPU intensive - one had to output the samples very fast (in comparison to the speed of the 6510 CPU).

The better manufacturing technology in the 8580 used in the later revisions of Commodore 64C and the Commodore 128DCR caused the bias to almost entirely disappear, causing the digitized sound samples to become very quiet. Fortunately, the volume level could be mostly restored with either a hardware modification (biasing the audio-in pin), or more commonly a software trick involving using the Pulse waveform to intentionally recreate the required bias. The software trick generally renders one voice temporarily unusable, although clever musical compositions can make this problem less noticeable. An excellent example of this quality improvement noticeably reducing a sampled channel can be found in the introduction to Electronic Arts' game Skate or Die (1987). The guitar riff played is all but missing when played on the Commodore 64c or the Commodore 128.
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Post by Polargames on Wed 28 Aug 2019 - 13:13

Relikk wrote:A small excerpt from the Wikipedia article about the chip...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOS_Technology_6581

Due to imperfect manufacturing technologies of the time and poor separation between the analog and digital parts of the chip, the 6581's output (before the amplifier stage) was always slightly biased from the zero level. Each time the volume register was altered, an audible click was produced. By quickly adjusting the amplifier's gain through the main 4-bit volume register, this bias could be modulated as PCM, resulting in a "virtual" fourth channel allowing 4-bit digital sample playback. The glitch was known and used from an early point on, first by Electronic Speech Systems to produce sampled speech in games such as Impossible Mission (1983, Epyx) and Ghostbusters (1984, Activision). The first instance of samples being used in actual musical compositions was by Martin Galway in Arkanoid (1987, Imagine), although he had copied the idea from an earlier drum synthesizer package called Digidrums. The length of sampled sound playback was limited first by memory and later technique. Kung Fu Fighting (1986), a popular early sample, has a playback length measured in seconds. c64mp3 (2010) and Cubase64 (2010) demonstrate playback lengths measured in minutes. Also, it was hugely CPU intensive - one had to output the samples very fast (in comparison to the speed of the 6510 CPU).

The better manufacturing technology in the 8580 used in the later revisions of Commodore 64C and the Commodore 128DCR caused the bias to almost entirely disappear, causing the digitized sound samples to become very quiet. Fortunately, the volume level could be mostly restored with either a hardware modification (biasing the audio-in pin), or more commonly a software trick involving using the Pulse waveform to intentionally recreate the required bias. The software trick generally renders one voice temporarily unusable, although clever musical compositions can make this problem less noticeable. An excellent example of this quality improvement noticeably reducing a sampled channel can be found in the introduction to Electronic Arts' game Skate or Die (1987). The guitar riff played is all but missing when played on the Commodore 64c or the Commodore 128.

Wow, this is very cool. Some old school hyper threading somewhat. lol All caused by imperfect manufacturing, I for one wish they would of left it. I understand this was not intended at all, but if I had build the C64 I would of left the sound chip as it was because it would boost the games to sound the best they could be at that time, and more people would want to make games for it giving the C64 a slight edge over the competition. Although the price point would make the slight edge almost non ex-stance. Thanks for the information Relikk Smile
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Post by Relikk on Mon 9 Sep 2019 - 14:39

Patch (neodev) and arcade music (me) for Strider.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ahue7izQZmougeZKPPl9r4hLRFpWuA?e=gLdPYv
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Post by Shadowrun on Tue 10 Sep 2019 - 6:39

will Zeldix create a special section for the enhanced MegaSD games ??
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Post by Conn on Tue 10 Sep 2019 - 10:40

If you find somebody (mod/admin) willing to maintain that section... I am out Razz
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Post by pepillopev on Tue 10 Sep 2019 - 10:48

@Conn I can maintain it. I just waited for one of the Zeldix Godfathers to chime in on the subject. If it is ok for you and Qwerty, I can do this. But probably need some assistance setting it up.

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Post by Polargames on Tue 10 Sep 2019 - 22:30

@Pepv, If it gets ok could I help out also? I know I am not a admin, but I would like to give a helping hand if the site needs one. I also have a few ideas that I have been thinking about for a while, that could be of help too. :-)
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Post by Nicholas on Sat 14 Sep 2019 - 15:50

Having a Mega SD cartridge myself. I would love to see different games for the MD+ feature as time passes. Sonic 3 & Knuckles most definitely comes to mind. But I wish there were better arranged music like there was for the Mega Man series of games (Krzysztof Slowikowski; ie).

Any official music done could also be helpful here too.
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Post by fullgamezone on Tue 17 Sep 2019 - 16:22

Any emulator that runs these ROMs with WAV audio? If so, how are the files?

fullgamezone
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Post by Relikk on Tue 17 Sep 2019 - 17:27

No emulators run MD+ currently.
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Post by fullgamezone on Thu 19 Sep 2019 - 12:52

What is the forum of mega sd that people are creating the patches?

fullgamezone
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