Did you know this?

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Did you know this?

Post by Puzzledude on Sat 5 Oct 2013 - 14:24

Recently someone on You tube defeated Ganon with no bow or silver arrows. He used the level-4 sword and the spin attack in the final stage of the battle, to hurt Ganon and he won. No bow at all (no arrows and no silver arrows). Embarassed
This changes things, since the Silver arrows are no longer mandatory, to end the game.
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Puzzledude



Since : 2012-06-20

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Re: Did you know this?

Post by XaserLE on Sat 5 Oct 2013 - 15:05

I never knew that this is possible, i thought you can't hurt him when he isn't "iced"?

XaserLE



Since : 2013-01-22

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Re: Did you know this?

Post by moegami on Sat 5 Oct 2013 - 20:06

This is actually quite good. For one the silver arrows break mini bosses on the way to the final boss since they one shot most of easier bosses. Also when obtaining them from a chest there is no dialog. Can we get a link to the video?
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moegami



Since : 2013-07-04

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Re: Did you know this?

Post by Erockbrox on Sun 6 Oct 2013 - 0:21

Yeah, I actually remember seeing a video about this a while back. I wonder if the programmers knew that this was possible?
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Re: Did you know this?

Post by Puzzledude on Sun 6 Oct 2013 - 14:00

Also when obtaining them from a chest there is no dialog. Can we get a link to the video?
 
 
go to 37 minutes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKtfcwu5g-I
 
Silver Arrows have no dialog if obtained from the chest. Sword level 4 has a wrong dialog if obtained from chest (message says you got the boomerang).
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Puzzledude



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Re: Did you know this?

Post by moegami on Sun 6 Oct 2013 - 14:42

For the sword level 4 that's interesting as well. But at the same time with the force boomerang now we could just renounce the blue boomerang and make it so the boomerang message says a level 4 sword.
Has this trick been tried in the original lttp? Perhaps something in parallel worlds made this possible.
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moegami



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Re: Did you know this?

Post by Conn on Sun 6 Oct 2013 - 16:11

I think it's only possible for PW, since if you watch the video closely, ganon will not freeze. In ALTTP he is blue for a while and in this stage he only gets hurt by silver arrows.

The messages are editable - you must trace with geiger which value goes to $1CF0... but a check is difficult to perform. Here's how I did for the forceboomerang/goldstar/wornoutglove:

Code:

04/45c9 8d f0 1c c9 70 00 -> 5c 00 dd 22 ea ea
11/5d00
STA $1CF0 
CMP #$0070             
BNE $04   
JMP $08C5D1
CMP #$0069            ; hookshot textbox 
BEQ $09   
CMP #$008F              ; magic boomerang textbox
BEQ $21   
JMP $08C5D8
LDA $7EF342
AND #$00FF             
CMP #$0002             
BEQ $07   
LDA $C2DD,y
JMP $08C5D8
LDA #$0069              ; new GoldenStar Text pointer here!
STA $1CF0 
JMP $08C5D8
LDA $7EF341
AND #$00FF             
CMP #$0003             
BEQ $07   
LDA $C2DD,y
JMP $08C5D8
LDA #$008F                        ; new Force Boomerang pointer here!
STA $1CF0  [$00:1CF0] 
JMP $08C5D8[$08:C5D8] 
It works following: check whether the magicboomerang/hookshot message is about to be displayed. If yes, branch, check which version. If it is force/boomerang (03 at 7ef341) or hookshot (02 at 7ef342), then display new message.

You can hook into my hack (in case you use it) to display another message. Make a check e.g. if boomerang 01 message is about to display. Make a check whether you have already a boomerang (lda $7ef341 cmp 01,02, if yes it must be sword4 you obtained, so point to l4 sword message). Same could be possible for FF FF (no messgae to $1cf0 for silver arrows)

But best is maybe you use the upgrade pond in your game since then you also can get the L3 magic meter and the super bomb (I'm pretty sure we have that soon :p)...
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Conn



Since : 2013-06-30

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Re: Did you know this?

Post by XaserLE on Sun 6 Oct 2013 - 16:19

Hm but obviously he always wait for ganon to disappear before he hurt him. Maybe it's really a bug that in this moment he can be hurt. Someone really should test this in a normal rom.

XaserLE



Since : 2013-01-22

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Re: Did you know this?

Post by Puzzledude on Tue 8 Oct 2013 - 12:19

I've tested this out and I could not beat Ganon with no silver arrows, but it seems I could hit him like 3 times with the spin attack. It is however very difficult and I don't know if it he took damage or not. I would say it is not possible in Alttp (or at least it is a lot easier with silver arrows).
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Since : 2012-06-20

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Re: Did you know this?

Post by XaserLE on Tue 8 Oct 2013 - 13:16

Ok i tried it too and it worked for me. I didn't fight to the end but the trick works like seen in the video. When he disappear there is a short moment in which he can be hurt.


Last edited by XaserLE on Wed 9 Oct 2013 - 3:37; edited 2 times in total

XaserLE



Since : 2013-01-22

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Re: Did you know this?

Post by Tompala on Tue 8 Oct 2013 - 17:11

The way this works is for a few frames when Ganon is about to teleport, you can simple damage him with sword attacks. Master Sword spins, or slashes/spins from either the Tempered Sword or the Golden one. It works in all versions, including the GBA as far as I know.

It has been known for awhile. I used it in an old Tool Assisted Speedrun of ALttP, and since then real time runners are using it too.

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Re: Did you know this?

Post by Puzzledude on Tue 8 Oct 2013 - 18:16

Got him.
 

 
But I must say it is very difficult and you will probably run out of green magic if you don't light the torches with the lamp.
 
However this opens new questions, since the Silver arrows are suddenly not mandatory to beat Ganon, which is not exactly good news.
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Puzzledude



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Re: Did you know this?

Post by moegami on Tue 8 Oct 2013 - 18:21

Maybe someone can just make a hack to add dialogue to receiving the silver arrows from a chest, and I'm assuming it's not good because now you can avoid parts of the game in order to beat, just try to make it almost mandatory to grab the silver arrows before the final boss?
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moegami



Since : 2013-07-04

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Re: Did you know this?

Post by XaserLE on Wed 9 Oct 2013 - 3:40

Maybe we can fix this with a hack, so he won't be hurt with the sword.

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Since : 2013-01-22

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