WAV Normalizing Suggestions

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Re: WAV Normalizing Suggestions

Post by pepillopev on Thu 19 Apr 2018 - 12:09

@edale I used Audacity to normalize the audio.

As for the Ys series, they are awesome (bought a lot of them from GoG without DRM).
Also have the TG-CD versions too.

Very Happy

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Re: WAV Normalizing Suggestions

Post by edale on Thu 19 Apr 2018 - 13:35

Conn wrote:Following this logic also zelda and super mario rpg are jrpg...
Now your getting it. Pretty much every game that came from Japan and is an RPG is a JRPG.

Though Zelda is kinda iffy on if it's an Action RPG or just an Action game, people have been arguing how to classify it since the 80's.
pepillopev wrote:@edale I used Audacity to normalize the audio.

As for the Ys series, they are awesome (bought a lot of them from GoG without DRM).
Also have the TG-CD versions too.

Very Happy
Audacity's normalization....kinda really really really sucks (at least for the type of normalization an MSU-1 mod needs).
http://normalize.nongnu.org/
You should use that program to normalize the audio for MSU-1 mods. It'll ensure that the PCM audio doesn't drown out the SPC sound effects in a game. Most SNES games need to be normalized at either -18dB or -21dB, but it can vary by game.
It's a command-line program, but it's possible to make a .bat file you can just drop the .wav file onto to normalize the audio before converting it to PCM.
Code:
cd %~dp0
FOR %%A IN (%*) DO normalize -a -21dBFS %%A
pause
As a .bat file, that'll normalize the audio to -18dB of any wav file drag-and-dropped onto it.


Last edited by edale on Fri 20 Apr 2018 - 23:39; edited 1 time in total

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Re: WAV Normalizing Suggestions

Post by pepillopev on Thu 19 Apr 2018 - 13:41

@edale Thanks for the suggestion. I will try it out and compare. I did notice that too but only for this game (the SPC700 sound effects samples do not sound too good with this port to begin with - drowned out, at least, for me). I did fully play the game in mute (always do to test if my spc mute is good).

PS: I forgot to mention that Axelay is another one where the SPC sound effects are not that good (made me question if the PCMs were done correctly). Anyway, if I like the end result using your suggestion, I will switch over to this method from then on. I'm always open to new suggestions.

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Re: WAV Normalizing Suggestions

Post by edale on Thu 19 Apr 2018 - 14:47

I don't know all the technical details, but there are 2 different types of normalization:
Peak Normalization
RMS Normalization

Audacity/Sox (and almost everything else) uses Peak Normalization.
RMS Normalization is far superior (for MSU-1 usage), and that's what the program I linked you to uses.

edale
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Re: WAV Normalizing Suggestions

Post by Relikk on Thu 19 Apr 2018 - 15:18

RMS applies compression to achieve its average normalisation levels. Which is fine when using an original lossless source that's not already heavily compressed, as a little compression is acceptable. I wouldn't use it on modern remixes, though. Thankfully most games that are MSU'd and that have soundtracks for them from other platforms are from a time before compression and mastering went overboard, and needed a certain level to compete with the original PSG channels of the consoles.
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Re: WAV Normalizing Suggestions

Post by pepillopev on Thu 19 Apr 2018 - 15:35

@Relikk So is RMS normalization safer to use on original WAV and FLAC sources (pulled from original source material)? What about MP3 to WAV conversions? What is your advice on this?

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Re: WAV Normalizing Suggestions

Post by smokemonster on Thu 19 Apr 2018 - 15:37

Shouldn't source FLAC & WAV always be the media source used for MSU-1s?

I think that if MP3s are used, it should be denoted in the notes, so others can try to track down the higher quality originals.
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Re: WAV Normalizing Suggestions

Post by pepillopev on Thu 19 Apr 2018 - 15:39

@smokemonster Not always the case. Only way to know is if you know yourself pulled it from the source material (CD or originally bought material). That in itself, is entering copyright murky waters. Some places post stuff that has already been compressed/decompressed too many times (losing original quality).

I agree, it would be good practice to mention where the audio was sourced, but it is something I overlook at times, I care more about getting the patch released. If I remember when doing my own PCMs, I'll post it but it really is not a priority for me.

As for Ys III, I sourced the Oath to Felghana from the OGG format. Axelay was a bit tougher (different artists at varying qualities). It was a struggle playing around with the audio to get each track to sound decent (did not have a good working source).


Last edited by pepillopev on Thu 19 Apr 2018 - 15:49; edited 1 time in total

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Re: WAV Normalizing Suggestions

Post by edale on Thu 19 Apr 2018 - 15:48

Relikk wrote:RMS applies compression to achieve its average normalisation levels. Which is fine when using an original lossless source that's not already heavily compressed, as a little compression is acceptable. I wouldn't use it on modern remixes, though. Thankfully most games that are MSU'd and that have soundtracks for them from other platforms are from a time before compression and mastering went overboard, and needed a certain level to compete with the original PSG channels of the consoles.
Erm... No.

https://documentation.apple.com/en/soundtrackpro/usermanual/index.html#chapter=9%26section=4%26tasks=true
There are two different methods you can use to normalize an audio file or selection: Peak (the default) or RMS (root mean square). If you choose the peak method, the highest peak in the file or selection is raised or lowered to the level you set, and the rest of the audio file is raised or lowered by the same amount. If you choose the RMS method, the average level in the file or selection is raised or lowered to the level you set.

A lot more technical info about the process:
http://www.hackaudio.com/digital-signal-processing/amplitude/rms-normalization/


No compression at all, and no problems with using it on "modern remixes".

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Re: WAV Normalizing Suggestions

Post by pepillopev on Thu 19 Apr 2018 - 15:52

@edale, @Relikk Wow, information overload. I think it would be best to open up this discussion in its own topic. This way it would be easier to find on this site. Just a suggestion.

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Re: WAV Normalizing Suggestions

Post by edale on Thu 19 Apr 2018 - 15:54

smokemonster wrote:Shouldn't source FLAC & WAV always be the media source used for MSU-1s?

I think that if MP3s are used, it should be denoted in the notes, so others can try to track down the higher quality originals.
FLAC or WAV should always be used if available; but the loss of audio fidelity from using an MP3 is negligible, as long as the MP3 is encoded at CD quality (128 kbps / 44100 Hz) or better.

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WAV Normalizing Suggestions

Post by Relikk on Thu 19 Apr 2018 - 16:04

pepillopev wrote:@edale, @Relikk Wow, information overload. I think it would be best to open up this discussion in its own topic. This way it would be easier to find on this site. Just a suggestion.

Agreed. It's sidetracking your release.
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Re: WAV Normalizing Suggestions

Post by pepillopev on Fri 20 Apr 2018 - 7:33

I moved this discussion into its own topic since it had nothing to do with Ys3 but more with best practices regarding WAV file normalization.

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Re: WAV Normalizing Suggestions

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