The difference between the MD+ and the MSU-MD

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Post by Brutapode89 on Fri 31 Jul 2020 - 22:33

Hi guys. Tell me. What's the difference between the MD+ and the MSU-MD?
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Post by pepillopev on Fri 31 Jul 2020 - 22:47

Brutapode89 wrote:Hi guys. Tell me. What's the difference between the MD+ and the MSU-MD?
They both provide the same effect in allowing CD quality music for properly patched games. The only difference is the programming approach to achieve the desired effect. I won’t dwell much on the technical side as this will only bring up the typical TerraOnion versus Krikkz pissing contest arguments. Both implementations have their respective strengths and weaknesses.

This reminds me of the classic VHS versus BetaMax battles back in the 80s. Or DVD-HD versus BluRay in early 2000s.

But here at Zeldix, we will not take sides and cover both. Our purpose is to provide easy access to the patches. Free of spam.

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Post by Conn on Sat 1 Aug 2020 - 4:17

Funny, I talked with Relikk yesterday about it and MD+ probably won't win the race (no public emu support it, only two hacker (neodev, infinest)).
Also krikzz converted all their hacks into MSU-MD. Relikk updated all hacks sections with the ported patches.
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Post by Relikk on Sat 1 Aug 2020 - 5:55

Brutapode89 wrote:Hi guys. Tell me. What's the difference between the MD+ and the MSU-MD?

MD+ is Terraonions equivalent to MSU1 and is only usable on their MegaSD cartridge, for the moment.

MSU-MD is Krikzz's addition to Mode 1 for use on his Mega Everdrive Pro cartridge. Can be used with real hardware and should be usable with emulators such as Kega Fusion, or anything that supports Mode 1.
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Post by pepillopev on Sat 1 Aug 2020 - 9:49

Conn wrote:Funny, I talked with Relikk yesterday about it and MD+ probably won't win the race...
Seems to be the case as the next MegaSD firmware will support MSU-MD out of box. neodev has mentioned to follow what everyone chooses to accept. It just sucks that in order to get proper seamless loop, it will be dependent on a properly written Mode-1 driver. Right now, it just loops to the beginning of a song. GameSack put up a good example illustrating this on Twitter. That is my only quip for Mode-1 but it is really the one winning at the moment.

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Post by Retroplay on Sat 1 Aug 2020 - 11:59

I tried a few of the MSU-MD patches in Fusion 3.64 with mixed results.
Moonwalker seems to work fine.
Strider and Golden Axe has issues though.
If only the patched rom is loaded, it's fine, but if I load the cue sheet to activate CD audio the player sprite becomes invisible, CD audio is playing though.

GenPlusGX doesn't play any audio at all.
The only CD audio hack I've confirmed 100% working in both emulators is Rock 'n Roll racing v16, but then again, that's not a specific MSU-MD title though.
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Post by pepillopev on Sat 1 Aug 2020 - 12:11

Retroplay wrote:If only the patched rom is loaded, it's fine, but if I load the cue sheet to activate CD audio the player sprite becomes invisible, CD audio is playing though.
My guess it will stabilize with time as Krikkz has full attention and resources to support his own product. So, I am not surprised this is the case. Eventually, a stable Mode-1 driver will be developed that will work among all types of titles w/o issue (with some minor tweaks).

TerraOnion has their hands full with MODE. Once that is out of the way; neodev will focus his attention back to MegaSD and SSDS3. MegaSD will soon have MSU-MD and SMS save state support. SSDS3 will get a UI overhaul as well.

Even then, development will still be at the mercy of having a good debugger. So, I see only very few people working on these hacks. So it will be a slow process, unlike, MSU-1, which had a lot of hackers. Then again, the SNES-based debug tools, at least to me, are more refined versus the Mega Drive ones.

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Post by Retroplay on Sat 1 Aug 2020 - 19:07

I figured it out in Retroarch Genesis Plus GX.
The official nightly buildbot hasn't caught up with latest GenPlusGX source.

I built my own x86_64 libretro GX core and it's working now.
However, as I said earlier, Fusion doesn't like these and causes weird errors with invisible player sprites with CD audio playing.

You can grab the compatible MSU-MD core here for Retroarch win64.
https://mega.nz/file/35tllSiL#-B56EyeshECvtgknNEDYtcZRkF67sRYCWZ21rbplNd8
(Built on MSYS2/MinGW GCC 10.2)

32-bit Windows users, see below:
https://mega.nz/file/D0dyCIhQ#5ADVr_KyPJ8Nle_7FLBHCSCghUQmDMs_ioXjvTkGqNI
I can't test this core as I don't have or use 32-bit Retroarch.
It's built using an old MSYS2 GCC 5.3.0 install I keep around just in case I need compatibility with Windows versions older than 7.
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Post by -pepodmc on Sun 2 Aug 2020 - 10:32

Retroplay wrote:
However, as I said earlier, Fusion doesn't like these and causes weird errors with invisible player sprites with CD audio playing.


I dont remember where i read this:


"i think that this is the problem in kega fusion:

"When I created a mode 1 for Chaos Layer, I had a similar problem. Turns out, Kega doesn't perform DMA transfers from ROM correctly in this mode.

Sonic 1 remains unaffected, because all DMA transfers in that game, are always done from RAM, never from ROM (likely due to the cartridge type at the time) "



PD: The x64 retroarch core you posted is not loading the last two tracks tracks (tried with outrun)
You only have to patch the rom with the msu-md patch and have the cue with the same name as the rom along the wav tracks in the same folder.

Im forgetting something?

-pepodmc
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Post by Retroplay on Mon 3 Aug 2020 - 8:28

No that's what I do.
However, I did use Isobuster to convert all the wavs to a single cue/iso.
Try this for OutRun (PS2 arranged):
https://mega.nz/file/WhUHEQRS#xY9HL5uWbGxDLpueRdIZvzWN6b6rgLxkIeDV8fsT26Y

I recall having issues with the Rock 'n Roll Racing hack (not MSU-MD) if I just used cue/wav.
Track 3 would play nothing but static scratchy noise, converting to cue/iso fixed it.
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Post by -pepodmc on Mon 3 Aug 2020 - 10:16

Retroplay wrote:No that's what I do.
However, I did use Isobuster to convert all the wavs to a single cue/iso.
Try this for OutRun (PS2 arranged):
https://mega.nz/file/WhUHEQRS#xY9HL5uWbGxDLpueRdIZvzWN6b6rgLxkIeDV8fsT26Y

I recall having issues with the Rock 'n Roll Racing hack (not MSU-MD) if I just used cue/wav.
Track 3 would play nothing but static scratchy noise, converting to cue/iso fixed it.

It worked, thanks!
There is one track missing, because the game has 5 tracks, and this music pack has 4 tracks. I suppose that they didnt found a cover for that track.

If you play the tracks in a race , there is no problem because the track starts and stops when it should.
But in sound test, the track missing (5th track) will never stop if you start it, even if you start another track. But happens in sound test only

-pepodmc
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Post by Retroplay on Mon 3 Aug 2020 - 11:22

https://www.zeldix.net/t1990-outrun
There's only four wavs in the packs and I assume the patch only works with four.

Also, Golden Axe use a dummy track.
Before converting Game Sacks Golden Axe Symphony to cue/iso, you'll have to edit the cue and add track 10 before you convert it.
I just did it like this:
Code:
FILE "01Wilderness.wav" WAVE
  TRACK 01 AUDIO
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
    REM LOOP 1803
FILE "02TurtleVillage1.wav" WAVE
  TRACK 02 AUDIO
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
    REM LOOP 0
FILE "03TurtleVillage2.wav" WAVE
  TRACK 03 AUDIO
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
    REM LOOP 0
FILE "04FiendsPath.wav" WAVE
  TRACK 04 AUDIO
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
    REM LOOP 1499
FILE "05DeathAdder.wav" WAVE
  TRACK 05 AUDIO
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
    REM LOOP 1876
FILE "06Battlefield.wav" WAVE
  TRACK 06 AUDIO
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
    REM LOOP 1066
FILE "07Showdown.wav" WAVE
  TRACK 07 AUDIO
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
    REM LOOP 124
FILE "08GameOver.wav" WAVE
  TRACK 08 AUDIO
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
    REM NOLOOP
FILE "09TheBattle.wav" WAVE
  TRACK 09 AUDIO
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
    REM LOOP 0
FILE "10ThiefsTheme.wav" WAVE
  TRACK 10 AUDIO
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
    REM NOLOOP
FILE "10ThiefsTheme.wav" WAVE
  TRACK 11 AUDIO
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
    REM NOLOOP
FILE "11OldMap.wav" WAVE
  TRACK 12 AUDIO
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
    REM NOLOOP
FILE "12Conclusion.wav" WAVE
  TRACK 13 AUDIO
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
    REM NOLOOP
FILE "13Sutakora.wav" WAVE
  TRACK 14 AUDIO
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
    REM LOOP 0
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Post by -pepodmc on Mon 3 Aug 2020 - 16:00

Thanks for the tips Yes Yes Yes

-pepodmc
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Post by Brutapode89 on Mon 3 Aug 2020 - 16:17

Ah, guys! Did you think we also can make sure that Master System games works in MSU-MD? Because, as Game Boy games on the Super Game Boy can be played in MSU-1 and it's an adapter for the SNES, the Master System Converter is also an adapter and it's to play Master System games on the Mega Drive.
The difference between the MD+ and the MSU-MD Ms-c11 The difference between the MD+ and the MSU-MD Ms-c-i10
What do you think about that?
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Post by -pepodmc on Mon 3 Aug 2020 - 17:12

Would be great. Plus there are patches that allow you to play Game Gear Games on your master System (like if they were sega master system games) and with the sega master converter, you can play these patched game gear games on Sega genesis too.

https://www.retrorgb.com/gamegearongenesis.html

https://www.smspower.org/forums/14742-GameGearToMasterSystemHacks#79131

https://www.smspower.org/Hacks/GameGearToMasterSystem




There are some great covers for game gear games, like for Shinobi 2:



Listen From 0:30


-pepodmc
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Post by -pepodmc on Wed 5 Aug 2020 - 7:41

Retroplay wrote:No that's what I do.
However, I did use Isobuster to convert all the wavs to a single cue/iso.
Try this for OutRun (PS2 arranged):
https://mega.nz/file/WhUHEQRS#xY9HL5uWbGxDLpueRdIZvzWN6b6rgLxkIeDV8fsT26Y

I recall having issues with the Rock 'n Roll Racing hack (not MSU-MD) if I just used cue/wav.
Track 3 would play nothing but static scratchy noise, converting to cue/iso fixed it.

In the "genesis plus GX" core of Retroarch, i tried all the sega genesis mode 1 hacks (krizz patched ones and the old mode 1 hacks) with OGG tracks instead of WAV.
And all works OK (even rock & roll racing or outrun), without having to transform the WAV tracks to ISO. Only need to transform the music of the hack to OGG format.

Its more handy to have the files this way, because if you want to create your own soundtrack you can put new tracks and check it on the fly, instead of having to transform the WAVs to ISO  everytime.

And the game+ogg tracks are lighter in size compared to game+iso (wav) :


Outrun (PS2 arranged):

game+iso (wav) = 165mb

game+ogg tracks = 14mb


In the future when we will have a lot of Mode 1 hacks, size will matter.

-pepodmc
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Post by Retroplay on Wed 5 Aug 2020 - 12:02

Ogg is a lossy format just like mp3 and should be avoided at all costs.
I only condone using lossless formats like 44Khz PCM WAV or FLAC.
Unfortunately FLAC isn't supported AFAIK, maybe in the future it will be, idk.
Also, even though MAME's CHD format is supported for regular Sega CD in GenPlusGX, it doesn't work in combination with hacked Mode1 or MSU-MD games.
Cue sheet must be present to detect and play the audio tracks.
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Post by Retroplay on Sat 8 Aug 2020 - 13:34

(Quote from the Top Gear 2 (MSU-MD, MD+, and Emulators) thread)

Im finishing a music pack for Sonic 1 (i found a patch to add custom music to that game).
Is it this hack by Novedicus & Bin Bowie (I modified the header for SEGA MEGASD compatibility) ?
https://mega.nz/file/nld00QRS#vpfeXktihCaP3vOBZqrFPeI02NHdYzFnbmpd-N1B5BY
Apply to a clean rom with these checksums:
Code:
Name:  Sonic The Hedgehog (USA, Europe).md
Size:  524288
CRC32: f9394e97
MD5:   1bc674be034e43c96b86487ac69d9293
SHA1:  6ddb7de1e17e7f6cdb88927bd906352030daa194

If so, I'm mildly annoyed I have to setup music every time I load the game.
It doesn't detect the 14 tracks and always default to Track 01 for each track.
I have to do this every time:
The difference between the MD+ and the MSU-MD 44ujYFh

Anyway, I whipped some tracks together from official US CD version.
https://mega.nz/file/mgE2HIAa#fcNe7wkQrkk1kAyhzyQpyq6oZkbF6cgaf0qbdrWJxF8
I'm by far a Sonic fan or expert so I might have used a couple of wrong tracks used for the levels.


Last edited by Retroplay on Sat 8 Aug 2020 - 14:07; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo)
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Post by -pepodmc on Sat 8 Aug 2020 - 14:20

Retroplay wrote:(Quote from the Top Gear 2 (MSU-MD, MD+, and Emulators) thread)

Im finishing a music pack for Sonic 1 (i found a patch to add custom music to that game).
Is it this hack by Novedicus & Bin Bowie (I modified the header for SEGA MEGASD compatibility) ?
https://mega.nz/file/nld00QRS#vpfeXktihCaP3vOBZqrFPeI02NHdYzFnbmpd-N1B5BY
Apply to a clean rom with these checksums:
Code:
Name:  Sonic The Hedgehog (USA, Europe).md
Size:  524288
CRC32: f9394e97
MD5:   1bc674be034e43c96b86487ac69d9293
SHA1:  6ddb7de1e17e7f6cdb88927bd906352030daa194

If so, I'm mildly annoyed I have to setup music every time I load the game.
It doesn't detect the 14 tracks and always default to Track 01 for each track.
I have to do this every time:
The difference between the MD+ and the MSU-MD 44ujYFh

Anyway, I whipped some tracks together from official US CD version.
https://mega.nz/file/mgE2HIAa#fcNe7wkQrkk1kAyhzyQpyq6oZkbF6cgaf0qbdrWJxF8
I'm by far a Sonic fan or expert so I might have used a couple of wrong tracks used for the levels.

No it is not, my hack seems to be another because that menu never appeared in mine.
Can you post the source of that hack?

Mine works OK, except that, sometimes when the invincibility tracks starts, at the end, will break the music and not load the track of the stage, happens (in ten tries) 2 of 10 times , but im trying to find the problem (im sure that its the looped tracks , but i want at least 5 minute tracks per stage)

Edit: I find it, but yeah , having to set up all tracks everytime you start the game is a setback.
You can use a savestate after you set up all tracks, but its not the ideal solution.

-pepodmc
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Post by Retroplay on Sat 8 Aug 2020 - 14:54

It's this hack:
https://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?threads/sonic-1-cdda.38315/
Links are dead though.
I found the already patched game in my misc folder and generated a patch from that.
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Post by -pepodmc on Sat 8 Aug 2020 - 15:00

Retroplay wrote:It's this hack:
https://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?threads/sonic-1-cdda.38315/
Links are dead though.
I found the already patched game in my misc folder and generated a patch from that.

This guy is making patches for more games (he made the Toejam and Earl patch) :
https://twitter.com/32mbit/status/1292113847332024322


But he only have Genesis Plus GX to test the hacks, and he said that is having problems with inacurracies in the Sega CD emulation.
So perhaps the problem im having with sonic mode 1 hack  its an emulator problem rather than a error caused by miself.


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Post by -pepodmc on Sat 8 Aug 2020 - 15:03

He is making one for the first vectorman, and garfield.

Then he put a message saying that if someone gave him complete soundtracks of Sega games, he would try to make a patch for them, thats why i was compiling these soundtracks:

https://twitter.com/32mbit/status/1287091660753707008








And gave him the videos and links to download the covers.

-pepodmc
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Post by -pepodmc on Sat 8 Aug 2020 - 15:28

Retroplay wrote:It's this hack:
https://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?threads/sonic-1-cdda.38315/
Links are dead though.
I found the already patched game in my misc folder and generated a patch from that.

Here its the link of the sonic 1 mode 1 hack i was making:

There are some problems:

This is the list of tracks:

The difference between the MD+ and the MSU-MD DXW3Yqf


As you see, the invincibility track its the track 12.

And when you are playing the first stage (Track 2) and you took the invincibility , the track for it takes longer to start in stage 1 than, for example, in  "scrap brain zone"  (the last 3 zones before the final boss)
That happens because it seems that it has to read from track 2 to 12 , and being the tracks longer because of the loops i made, takes longer to reach there and start it.
But scrap Brain Zone its the track 7 , so has to make a shorter "road" until the track 12 (its the way the sega cd works it seems).
IF a music track of  a stage its more near the Invincibility track (in the tracklist), the faster will load the invincibility track in that stage.



So, you can make loops but that invincibility track will start faster or slower depending of which stage are you playing (its a problem more than anything in green hill zone only, takes longer to start there)
Or Dont make loops, but After finishing the track there is  a silence or a "puk" sound, and looks bad.
Some stages are longer like labyrinth zone or the second stage of marble zone, so i cant put short tracks or will finish after finishing the stage.

---------------------------------------

And the other problem is that the invincibility tracks breaks the music of the game, but happens 2 of 10 times you try, this is what im trying to fix more than anything.


Last edited by -pepodmc on Sat 8 Aug 2020 - 21:40; edited 2 times in total

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Post by Retroplay on Sat 8 Aug 2020 - 19:51

Ah, cool.
I was looking all over for that version.

Before a moderator kicks in, you might want to remove the patched rom from your upload.
A MegaSD friendly patch + Sega CD tracks can be grabbed here:
https://mega.nz/file/CgU10K5C#CqlOlCEPWcn-M3cpX9RJIuOKtcTxXaBbcxmZVVjtV58
Use it on this rom:
Code:
Name:  Sonic The Hedgehog (USA, Europe).md
Size:  524288
CRC32: f9394e97
MD5:   1bc674be034e43c96b86487ac69d9293
SHA1:  6ddb7de1e17e7f6cdb88927bd906352030daa194

I think this should be good, I made it to level 3 act 2 and didn't notice anything strange.
I did have to "borrow" a few tracks from Sonic Mania (drowning and continue) other than that, everything is from official US Sega CD version.
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Post by -pepodmc on Sat 8 Aug 2020 - 21:44

Retroplay wrote:Ah, cool.
I was looking all over for that version.

Before a moderator kicks in, you might want to remove the patched rom from your upload.
A MegaSD friendly patch + Sega CD tracks can be grabbed here:
https://mega.nz/file/CgU10K5C#CqlOlCEPWcn-M3cpX9RJIuOKtcTxXaBbcxmZVVjtV58
Use it on this rom:
Code:
Name:  Sonic The Hedgehog (USA, Europe).md
Size:  524288
CRC32: f9394e97
MD5:   1bc674be034e43c96b86487ac69d9293
SHA1:  6ddb7de1e17e7f6cdb88927bd906352030daa194

I think this should be good, I made it to level 3 act 2 and didn't notice anything strange.
I did have to "borrow" a few tracks from Sonic Mania (drowning and continue) other than that, everything is from official US Sega CD version.


Yeah, i forgot to exclude the rom, thanks XD.

Tomorrow will upload the sonic 1 patch and your music pack, then i will upload mine when i finish it

-pepodmc
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