Charmy Needs Help

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Charmy Needs Help

Post by Charmander106 on Wed 23 Apr 2014 - 0:03

Okay so I just want to know if some of the original light world map tiles had any garbage tiles that I could replace for new tiles? I also have no intentions of editing any of the original tiles that are used.
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Re: Charmy Needs Help

Post by White_Yoshi54 on Wed 23 Apr 2014 - 2:39

Well Joey, I have no idea about garbage tiles.. however I did circle tiles that I didn't use that don't seem to have much affect on anything.

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The RED tile are the ones I didn't use, that you might/not be using that you can over-write.

the BLUE tiles are comepletely unknown that you probably aren't going to use.

Be aware that when you graphically edit this stuff it changes hex data as well, so be careful! Smile

Best of luck, and I hope this helped
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Re: Charmy Needs Help

Post by SePH on Thu 24 Apr 2014 - 23:57

All the tiles are used at some point, but it doesn't mean you can't change some of them into other graphics to save space.

For exemple, here's the map graphics as I've changed them in Parallel Worlds to give you an idea of what can be done!

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^^Don't forget there's two different palettes for the two overworlds and that all tiles are shared. You have to make up with the 256 tiles/256 colors limit :/

And the end results:

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Re: Charmy Needs Help

Post by White_Yoshi54 on Fri 25 Apr 2014 - 6:01

Gee, SePH, mate. You could've done a little bit better shading the clouds? =P
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Re: Charmy Needs Help

Post by Charmander106 on Fri 25 Apr 2014 - 6:22

Thanks seph, now I understand. Like I said I'm just gonna work with what is already there. Alright back to hacking!
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Re: Charmy Needs Help

Post by Charmander106 on Mon 28 Apr 2014 - 6:34

I had an idea that that the master sword event and area take place at the top of Tower of Hera and was wondering if it would be possible or not?
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Re: Charmy Needs Help

Post by Puzzledude on Mon 28 Apr 2014 - 9:12

Yes, it is possible; since Master sword is a sprite, which reacts on 3 pendants. If you have those and stand above this sprite and press A, the event will go automatically (you just need to set the gfx blk and pal correctly, which can be difficult, since it is hard to read those, if the area is a special one, like the forest meadow).

But the Master sword sprite must be outside, and can not be inside (top of Mountain Hera sounds like indoors). If you place the sprite indoors, the event will work up to Sahasrahla's message and then freeze.

It is also a question, what the event will do with the "backdrop effect", which is on the Mountain (effect to see into the valley below). In GoT I decided to move this event to area 00, with no backgrounds and a fade out passage to area 01, so that the fog is cleared only when the sword is pulled and comes back later.
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Re: Charmy Needs Help

Post by SePH on Mon 28 Apr 2014 - 15:59

Puzzledude wrote:Yes, it is possible; since Master sword is a sprite, which reacts on 3 pendants. If you have those and stand above this sprite and press A, the event will go automatically (you just need to set the gfx blk and pal correctly, which can be difficult, since it is hard to read those, if the area is a special one, like the forest meadow).
It's easy to know which Sprite GFX and Sprite Palette those special areas are using.

Open Area 80 (master sword + under the bridge areas) or 81 (zoras domain) and then click the exit button at the top. Then double click on either exit 0180 or 0181. You'll find the correct Sprite GFX and Sprite Palette information there(ignore the greyed out info at the top since those aren't the right ones).

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Then go to any areas of your choosing, and enter those in the top area:

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After that go in the 16x16 block editor and scroll at the bottom, you'll find out the master sword graphics/pendants and its animation are loaded in the area correctly.

More information about that sprite taken from my incomplete compendium guide:

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with the gfx tiles locations it's possible to go one step further and add other sprites in those tilesets to make your areas even more custom, but this goes down into the graphics schemes which is definitively  harder to manage then the rest of the game, especially for newbies Smile

But there you have it, moving that event to another screen as basic as it gets!

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Re: Charmy Needs Help

Post by Charmander106 on Mon 28 Apr 2014 - 17:02

I actually didn't plan to move the master sword but to use the forest meadow and change it to the top of the tower. Which means I want another exit in the Tower of Hera into the area where the master sword is. This I think would require some ASM changes?
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Re: Charmy Needs Help

Post by Charmander106 on Mon 28 Apr 2014 - 17:31

So could I just take the mountain area and split the layout there with 4 screens and just block the top one as top of the tower?
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Re: Charmy Needs Help

Post by Puzzledude on Mon 28 Apr 2014 - 18:36

Splitting layouts is actually not recommended. This can be done, but the rom is severely affected (drops in all entrances in various darkworld areas). So before changing the global grid all overworld sprites and item need to be removed, and after splitting all overworld (bugged) entrances and whirlpools must be removed.

Area 07 for instance is already small (and not a special area), and Mountain compatible. This can be your top with the new entrance to the tower, accesible only through the tower, but not otherwise. This area would have the Master sword then (would be ideal, since this area would be accesible only thorough indoors, so no passage problems at possible mist-clearing effect).
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Re: Charmy Needs Help

Post by SePH on Mon 28 Apr 2014 - 18:48

Charmander106 wrote:Which means I want another exit in the Tower of Hera into the area where the master sword is. This I think would require some ASM changes?
This is very easily possible to do.

If you open HM and go to Area 00, you'll notice that the hollow tree that goes to the Master Sword area doesn't use any entrance to get there. 

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It's a special teleporter that works using specific tiles. It's possible to move this special teleporter to another area of your choosing and be able to enter the secret meadow from anywhere. 

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There's no asm involved here, you simply need to do simple hex changes to make another area load the secret meadow once ''Link'' touches those special tiles.

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It's of course possible to change the graphics that loads in Area 80 and 81 to other gfx sets but the graphics will appear glitched in HM.

They are located in the exit of those areas (0181, 0182, 0183).

Here's an exemple of what I mean.

My Area 81 (in parallel worlds) as it appears in HM:

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And it's properties:

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That area just plays fine in the game however and it is known as the waterfall cavern.

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Re: Charmy Needs Help

Post by SePH on Mon 28 Apr 2014 - 19:00

Forgot to meantion, but you can also change the position that Link enters those special areas!

Here's the original game area under the bridge and it's properties:

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And mine in parallel worlds... I was able to create a bigger area then the original one that didn't used the overlay under the bridge:

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So in all, you can move both the secret meadow, area under the bridge and zoras waterfall teleporter tiles to any area in the game!

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Re: Charmy Needs Help

Post by Puzzledude on Mon 28 Apr 2014 - 19:03

SePH, seeing your post, I realized, that I actually misunderstood this:
Charmander106 wrote:Which means I want another exit in the Tower of Hera into the area where the master sword is. This I think would require some ASM changes?

At first I thought, that the "exit from Tower of Hera" is a temple exit (which also has a temple entrance= yellow dot in HM) located in the Meadow. And there can be no entrance (yellow dot in HM) in the Meadow.

But if the post is talking about area traversing from Death Mountain area into Master sword area (which is not a temple exit, but rather an area teleporter), than this of course is possible. But like SePH said, it is tile based, so when you touch these special overworld tiles, you are "teleported" from one area to another.
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Re: Charmy Needs Help

Post by SePH on Mon 28 Apr 2014 - 19:22

No worries :-P

If were speaking of adding normal entrances/exits (yellow and white dots) into those areas this is of course not working.

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Re: Charmy Needs Help

Post by Charmander106 on Tue 29 Apr 2014 - 17:54

Thanks guys, I'll be playing with that in the moment but now another question is that I would like to export my OV map data, along with other data as well, and import into another ROM so that I can have separate ROM's to edit individual portions to kinda make editing this game more manageable.
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Re: Charmy Needs Help

Post by Puzzledude on Tue 29 Apr 2014 - 19:03

You remind me of me, when I started modding this game. Smart thinking. That's the only way to do it actually. An expert modder will always have 2 main roms: one to construct the overworlds and the other for dungeons. Sometimes one more for monologues and one more for dark world (separated from light world).

It actually goes further (in GoT I construct each dungeon in separate compatible rom, and then merge everything together in hex, and then merge this with the finished overworlds rom). Same can be done for all screens which tend to bug (title, naming screen etc) and the monologues. However the World map was not yet hex decoded (I actually didn't see the need of doing that back in the day, since this doesn't tend to bug).

Also, don't forget the backups. This basically means that after a day of editing, you copy paste the rom, and continue working on the v2. So when you are on version 5 and get the rom bugged, you erase it, and continue with version 4 again.
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Re: Charmy Needs Help

Post by Charmander106 on Wed 30 Apr 2014 - 22:45

Here is what the tower looks like: Image
Note, this is just for testing purposes and will most likely be changed from the final release.

Now what I want is the boss room in the Tower of Hera to have another Entrance/Exit to reach the balcony area to get to the Master Sword area.

The map thing was just a sort of convenience in which I wouldn't have to rebuild the map from scratch on another ROM. It doesn't matter as much since I actually have the map pretty much done and just needs a few more touches before I let you see it.
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Re: Charmy Needs Help

Post by Puzzledude on Thu 1 May 2014 - 5:57

Charmander106 wrote:
Now what I want is the boss room in the Tower of Hera to have another Entrance/Exit to reach the balcony area to get to the Master Sword area.
Good thing that you posted a picture. The upper sentance is logical only, if you change the forest meadow into something, that looks like the tower indoors (similar to Parallel Worlds, where it looks like the pyramid).

So when you are on the balcony: the right entrance is a normal one (yellow dot), that leads to the actual indoors; the left entrance is an area teleporter to the forest meadow, which has the gfx changed, so it looks like the tower indoors (but actually you are in a special outdoor area). This is doable.
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Re: Charmy Needs Help

Post by Charmander106 on Thu 1 May 2014 - 6:52

Yes now I want to add a entrance to the boss room in the tower? I just don't want to have to overwrite a room with an already existing entrance, if it's possible.
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Re: Charmy Needs Help

Post by Spane on Thu 1 May 2014 - 7:04

You have to overwrite one existing entrance to get a new entrance. You can not add more entrances when already in the game. So a little tutorial:

Search for an entrance you wouldn't use in your hack. If you have the new version of hyrule double click on the entrance button and you see on the lower left part of you screen "Starting location" and "Room".
In the box next to "Room" you have to write the roomnumber of your bossroom. Close the complete rom and save.
Now double click on the exit button which belows to the entrance and change here the room number also.

Save and close the rom completely again. Open it again and you have successfully added an entrance to your bossroom.

Now you have only one remaining problem, because if you beat the boss and get the pendant you will be portet outside the dungeon to your first entrance so you have to change this also. I think what will need asm but that's not my territory :-D

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Re: Charmy Needs Help

Post by Puzzledude on Thu 1 May 2014 - 9:03

Charmander106 wrote:Yes now I want to add a entrance to the boss room in the tower? I just don't want to have to overwrite a room with an already existing entrance, if it's possible.

The number of entrances is fixed. You can not have more entrances as already exist in Alttp. If you want a new entrance, any other entrance must be sacrificed. And not just any entrance, and not just any room. You need a complex entrance (the one which is not automatically the exit), since you want to enter below and exit above. So you can exclude all entrances in Alttp with no white dot above them. And the room must be choosen from 0-255, but not above 255. So you need to choose an already existing entrance leading to a room, which is between 0-255; and then change that to room7.

Spane wrote:Now you have only one remaining problem, because if you beat the boss and get the pendant you will be portet outside the dungeon to your first entrance so you have to change this also. I think what will need asm but that's not my territory :-D

That's easy, no Asm needed. In Hyrule Magic, just go to Dungeon properties in the main root of the program when opening a rom. Then go to Pendant3. Define boss room= 7, end room= 7, and start room= X. When you defeat the boss, the game will search for this X room, with the entrance, and put you out there. So if you change this X to 7 (mouldrum boss) and this room has the exit/entrance to the balcony, you will come out at the balcony when the boss is defeated. If set to room 119, you will come out bellow.
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Re: Charmy Needs Help

Post by Charmander106 on Sun 4 May 2014 - 12:44

Alright I've been away for a few days but I'm back now.

So I want to add another floor and edit the room header but HM keeps saying that there is no more room for the room headers, how would I go about solving this?
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Re: Charmy Needs Help

Post by Puzzledude on Sun 4 May 2014 - 13:47

Welcome to the "no room for room header" club. Every person editing Zelda3 has encounter this. It basically means, that the area for headers of your rom is already full.

There are 2 options to solve this: I believe SePH has posted a special version of HM somewhere, which has the command to transfer the header data to another location (so you never run out).

But the "true hackers choice" is certainly the Room Transfer program or RT, programed by XaserLe. It has the ability to transfter all indoor data (header included) to a certain place at the end of the rom (so you don't have to search for it manually via pointers). Of course afterwards the rom is no longer compatible with HM (which is ironic).

By doing so, all 320 rooms can have full amount of header used.

Xaser programed a separate program as well, called RH, which deals only with header.

I use this strategy in GoT. I Construct one dungeon in a separate rom, then I use RT to locate all indoor data (including header) and then use precalculated pointers to insert this data in the main rom (which is being glued together in hex). That way all the rooms can have maximum amount of header possible (including those rooms which are not even seen in HM). This is so, because the pointers always have additional space, which involves 320 rooms, rather than 296.

You can also gain header space by deselecting the header properties of other rooms, like room 1. If you decide not to use this room (which has maximum header space used), than you gain lots of header space.
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Re: Charmy Needs Help

Post by Charmander106 on Sun 11 May 2014 - 11:44

Here it is, the Tower of Hera now leads to the master sword area:



There are problems that obviously need fixing before it's really done but It's close as I want it ATM.
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