Zelda 3 beta

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Zelda 3 beta

Post by Erockbrox on Fri 12 Jun 2015 - 0:11

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3CXQ23qvek
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Re: Zelda 3 beta

Post by wizzrobemaster on Sat 13 Jun 2015 - 11:40

I feel that if this game was released for the nes then perhaps we could have gotten another snes title. still on the nes would mean more limits.

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Re: Zelda 3 beta

Post by SunGodPortal on Sat 13 Jun 2015 - 12:15

I feel that if this game was released for the nes then perhaps we could have gotten another snes title.

That's what I always wonder about Castlevania 64 (even though it's a much different example). If Konami hadn't botched it so badly by rushing it toward the end of the production there would have been no need to make Legacy of Darkness. They could have made a new Castlevania for the N64 instead of what basically amounted to a director's cut/remix. I think most people were really disappointed with CV64 and knowing that Legacy is just an alternate version of that game, it keeps many people from giving it a chance (when it is actually an awesome game). That's a real shame, since unlike the other 3D CV games it actually shows what potential the original format had in a 3D setting before they went off the deep end and just started copying other games and calling them Castlevania.
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Re: Zelda 3 beta

Post by wizzrobemaster on Sat 13 Jun 2015 - 16:26

I wonder what the snes Zelda would have been like if Zelda 3 was released for the nes. would there have been link's awakening or would there be a different title instead? one issue with Zelda 3 on the sens was that it was released during the early snes era (before the super fx chip) so there were many limitations this game had. in fact there is hardly anything left out. most things were just cosmetic changes and there are 2 dummied enemies (canon soldier and a dark world bat-like monster). the stop watch was also omitted, but its effects are apparently unknown.

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Re: Zelda 3 beta

Post by SunGodPortal on Sat 13 Jun 2015 - 19:02

would there have been link's awakening or would there be a different title instead?

I suspect that Link's Awakening would have happened either way since it started as a project some of the Nintendo staff had on the side (as I understood it) independant of the company.

one issue with Zelda 3 on the sens was that it was released during the early snes era (before the super fx chip) so there were many limitations this game had

This is not an issue. There would be absolutely no need for this chip in ALttP. It would only be an unnecessary gimmick that would raise the price. ALttP didn't have any unusual restrictions compared to any other SNES game and it plays near-perfect as-is. This reminds me of your complaint about the arrows, which was also silly.

the stop watch was also omitted, but its effects are apparently unknown

I would have expected it to be just like the one in the first Zelda. I suppose it would have been a fun extra, but in the end isn't necessary and by not having it we aren't really missing anything.
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Re: Zelda 3 beta

Post by wizzrobemaster on Sat 13 Jun 2015 - 19:41

"This is not an issue. There would be absolutely no need for this chip in ALttP. It would only be an unnecessary gimmick that would raise the price. ALttP didn't have any unusual restrictions compared to any other SNES game and it plays near-perfect as-is. This reminds me of your complaint about the arrows, which was also silly."

that is where I have to disagree. the biggest issue I have with Zelda 3 is the bad hit detection. there are several times that my sword swing will miss a target while an enemy manages to hit me. it is even worse by the fact that spike blocks have a larger hit box than their sprite. another issue I have is the inconsistent damage calculations where the red mail will not reduce damage down to one quarter, but sometimes either half or no reduction at all. a super fx chip could probably fix some of these limitations the game had. magic was also too dependent in this game and it was not that easy to come by until you had the hammer and the ether medallion. even then it was not guaranteed. bosses such as trinexx and kholdstare required magic and if you ran out, then it was back to the entrance. (the gba version fixed this issue by having magic bottles appear if you ran out). furthermore there was the movement bias when you get to death mountain. link is unable to move because of the old man (who moves so slowly) enters the cave and while you are stuck, boulders fall down and hit you while simultaneously getting bumped into dead rocks. those are probably my biggest issues with the game. the other ones are either minor are bug problems (such as the mothula bug that was fixed in the gba version).

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Re: Zelda 3 beta

Post by SunGodPortal on Sat 13 Jun 2015 - 20:38

the biggest issue I have with Zelda 3 is the bad hit detection. there are several times that my sword swing will miss a target while an enemy manages to hit me.

I've never found the hit detection to be a problem. When I didn't hit something it was usually a matter of timing or being sloppy.

it is even worse by the fact that spike blocks have a larger hit box than their sprite

This, I do find annoying but it is almost never an issue. In fact, I may go so far as to say that the only time it becomes an issue is in hacks of the game where the spike blocks are used differently than the original game.

another issue I have is the inconsistent damage calculations where the red mail will not reduce damage down to one quarter, but sometimes either half or no reduction at all

Perhaps this is as it should be. Let's remember that when Link gets the Red Mail he is basically getting a new red shirt, not a full-body armor suit. I expect that a red shirt isn't going to protect you from much or a greater variety of attacks than his green or blue "shirts". Either way, I don't understand how this can be a problem unless you choose to overanalyze the situation. You really only have the red mail for one dungeon, right? What could that possibly screw up?

a super fx chip could probably fix some of these limitations the game had.

The Super FX chip does not polish the existing code so I don't see how it could fix any of the games issues. Most everything you've complained about here is simply a matter of how certain things were coded, not a matter of hardware restrictions.

bosses such as trinexx and kholdstare required magic and if you ran out, then it was back to the entrance

That means you have to come up with a strategy and conserve your magic. This is not a gameplay flaw, it is depth. The same thing will happen in a Final Fantasy game but no one considers that a design flaw.

furthermore there was the movement bias when you get to death mountain. link is unable to move because of the old man (who moves so slowly) enters the cave and while you are stuck, boulders fall down and hit you while simultaneously getting bumped into dead rocks

The old man is OLD. That's why he is slow. Because old people are slow. The part about the boulders is a little annoying but it doesn't make any significant difference because it only effects 2 seconds of the entire gameplay. Therefore, it's not really an issue.

I still don't understand where you are coming from. All of your complaints are spoken of in a fashion that makes them sound so serious and bordeline game-breaking, when every single one of them is quite trivial.
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Re: Zelda 3 beta

Post by Conn on Sat 13 Jun 2015 - 21:19

I think I already gave you a code how to fix the old man walking.

Remember it is a 20 years old game, nevertheless, the code is quite well programmed and the game has opened a new era in game development. I'd suggest you to concentrate on the positive things this game offers instead of trying to find flaws all the time.

As for the stop watch left out. I can retrace why. The stuff the monster leave is pretty much the same as they did in zelda nes.
So they wanted to copy the watch initially too. But the monster system is different... in nes, zelda you had small screens with mostly 4 monsters in each screen, in ALTTP you have more or less the same number but in a larger screen. A stop watch feels wrong from a logical and intuitive point of view, but I can't explain it better now (getting late here).
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Re: Zelda 3 beta

Post by wizzrobemaster on Sat 13 Jun 2015 - 22:29

well it is also kind of redundant to have a stop watch when you have quake and ether. there was supposed to be a letter which apparently had the same function as the mirror. one of the tiles (the skull tiles in the palace of the four sword) were unused for whatever reason in native Zelda 3. the gba version however added likelikes when pikits where called likelikes in the Japanese version. one thing I would also fix (if I knew how to) is to relocate 2 of the heart pieces as RNG based heart pieces is bad design. nevertheless you can manipulate the RNG in the treasure chest game thereby making it a bit easier. despite the flaws of the game, it still modernized the Zelda series and a link between worlds (aside from that awful endless cucco minigame for completionists) was what a Zelda game should have been like since Zelda 3. link's awakening was a good addition but later 3d games became too linear and infested with so many fetch quests. Zelda 3 was able to keep that to a minimum although it would nice to see for monkey to demand less rupees and swap quake and ether (although I recall that change would be too difficult). nevertheless if I saw a remake to Zelda 3, I would want to see an expanded world with a few more optional dungeons and new items.

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