dungeon entrance from a house

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dungeon entrance from a house

Post by wizzrobemaster on Wed 27 Jan 2016 - 16:24

is it possible to enter a dungeon from a non-dungeon room that is in the domain of 0-255? for example, 3d games such as ocarina of time and the wind waker have caves that lead to dungeons (e.g. fire temple entrance from death mountain crater and the earth and wind temple in the wind waker. a link between worlds also had this with the swamp palace.

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Re: dungeon entrance from a house

Post by SunGodPortal on Wed 27 Jan 2016 - 16:28

There's no reason why you shouldn't be able to accomplish this, but to have the GFX work properly you may have to drop down a hole (like 0A4) into the new area. I believe stairs and doors are not enough to reset the GFX in this case.
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Re: dungeon entrance from a house

Post by wizzrobemaster on Wed 27 Jan 2016 - 16:36

one thing I thought would be cool is to have a simple home lead to the dungeon.

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Re: dungeon entrance from a house

Post by SunGodPortal on Wed 27 Jan 2016 - 16:39

I can understand that. Sounds like some of the ideas I've had. This is entirely possible.
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Re: dungeon entrance from a house

Post by wizzrobemaster on Wed 27 Jan 2016 - 16:46

I wanted to add a stairwell in the lumberjack's home until I realized the room is beyond 255.

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Re: dungeon entrance from a house

Post by SunGodPortal on Wed 27 Jan 2016 - 16:55

I don't think stairs are enough. As far as I know, the only thing that will work for going from a house or cave to a dungeon or whatever would be to drop through an indoor hole.
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Re: dungeon entrance from a house

Post by Puzzledude on Thu 28 Jan 2016 - 5:45

Dungeon entrance from a house is a bad idea. The global wall gfx will "scroll" through the entire indoors, from where you entered, so will the key counter. Such a "house" would then also be a dungeon. Not recomended.

Specially when it comes to "caves" unless you want to have a cave-walled dungeon, since the walls will "scroll" and you can not reset this while indoors.

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Re: dungeon entrance from a house

Post by SunGodPortal on Thu 28 Jan 2016 - 16:20

Does anyone know if the transition from the "castle" dungeon to the "church" dungeon is special? Earlier I was wondering if what wizrobemaster is wanting would be troublesome due to the "dungeon properties" and how these are activated or changed, but if in the first part of the game you can go from one dungeon to another without ever stepping outside I don't see why this can't work.
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Re: dungeon entrance from a house

Post by wizzrobemaster on Thu 28 Jan 2016 - 17:05

well the castle dungeon to the sewers has the mantle piece overlay (which sadly can only be pushed once). because they have different maps, Zelda 3 in fact has 14 dungeons in the game, 3 of which are different sections in hyrule castle.

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Re: dungeon entrance from a house

Post by SunGodPortal on Thu 28 Jan 2016 - 18:30

Yeah. Because of how that works I think this idea should be possible as long as you do something like I mentioned with the holes so it won't matter if your GFX sets are compatible going from the house portion to dungeon.

I was just concerned because I wasn't sure if the "start room" in the dungeon properties had to be in the same room as the entrance. Judging from the way the dungeon switches in the castle/tower/sewer I suppose it could be possible though it would def require testing. Best way, I suppose would have a house as the start room, drop down into the first room of the dungeon (set as the "start room", not the house) and have the boss in the next room and then set the boss, end and start rooms in the dungeon properties..
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Re: dungeon entrance from a house

Post by wizzrobemaster on Thu 28 Jan 2016 - 19:17

it sounds complicated and if anyone wanted to make a 2d version of the private oasis fro the wind waker, then it would be rather difficult. I suppose having the room layout the same, but the color palette is different. for hyrule castle, I made the entire place dark with the exception of the throne room because colors did not blend well.

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Re: dungeon entrance from a house

Post by SunGodPortal on Thu 28 Jan 2016 - 19:36

it sounds complicated and if anyone wanted to make a 2d version of the private oasis fro the wind waker, then it would be rather difficult.

I'm confused. Where does this come in?

for hyrule castle, I made the entire place dark with the exception of the throne room because colors did not blend well.

What?!?
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Re: dungeon entrance from a house

Post by wizzrobemaster on Thu 28 Jan 2016 - 19:59

okay so in the wind waker, the private oasis is normal house, but leads to sewers. the minish cap I believe also does this as well sometimes. as for hyrule castle, I changed the color palette of the entrance (initially gold) to match the dungeon section.

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Re: dungeon entrance from a house

Post by SunGodPortal on Thu 28 Jan 2016 - 20:17

Ah. I also changed it for the Bruce Campbell redux.

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I stole the palette idea from the Omega hack because I like the darker atmosphere it creates. That seems fitting for an Evil Dead themed hack.
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Re: dungeon entrance from a house

Post by wizzrobemaster on Thu 28 Jan 2016 - 20:30

is bruce Campbell your hack?

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Re: dungeon entrance from a house

Post by SunGodPortal on Thu 28 Jan 2016 - 21:22

is bruce Campbell your hack?

A little history lesson... (which turned into a big history lesson before I finished)

Bruce Campbell vs Ganon was a hack originally made by KGP4death. He released a very unpolished and bugged 1.0 on Halloween (I forget the year) and made a small update some time after. Not long after, he got burned out and didn't want to work on it anymore. The game was basically finished but still needed a good deal of work likely due to him not going back on the release date that he had announced.

Fast-forward to roughly this time last year...

I decided to stop working on Final Fantasy IV and moved on to A Link to the Past. Shortly after, I finally decided to give BCvsG a chance (something I had initially passed on because I thought the idea was "stupid" despite being a big fan of Bruce Campbell, also the negative reviews speaking of game-breaking bugs didn't help) and was blown away. Once I looked beyond all of the problems it had related to a rushed release I was able to see how awesome it was.

I just couldn't accept that a game so fun could be left "abandoned" and "unfinished" like that. I wanted to do something about it because I really did think it was awesome and I enjoyed it WAY more than the other ALttP hacks. I'm sure this isn't what some of the other members want to hear (it's just my opinion though), but I truly hate Parallel Worlds and Goddess of Wisdom. Puzzledude's Quest is fun when you aren't in the overworld or during those moments of "Oh. So I was supposed to hit that peg switch about 10 rooms back. I guess I have to go back and take care of that for the 20th time". To me Bruce Campbell was the best.

I did some investigating and finally managed to contact Mr. KGP. He was happy to know that someone had enjoyed his hack so much and could appreciate it despite all of its flaws. He said he was retired so I figured if the game was going to be all that it could be, it was up to me. There were so many problems with the original it was overwhelming so I wanted to build a new version from the ground up. He seemed cool with this idea but suggested that I at least try to bug-fix the existing version just in case I never finished my version. So I did. There were a number of other changes I was going to do and once he came back out of retirement we added even more to the to-do list. We both bit off more than we could chew but an improvement patch did finally see the light of day.

I worked on my own hack(s) for a few months but I kept thinking about how I wanted to rebuild BCvsG. I tried to contact KGP a few months back to see if he wanted to continue our plans of a sequel, but he has a tendency to disappear from the internet for long periods of time. I emailed him in August and still have heard nothing from him.

Anyway, a few weeks ago I started working on the rebuild. The process so far has been: rebuild his dungeons, keep what is good, improve what I think could be better and change what is too familiar. Right now I have 3 dungeons that are finished except for a few minor changes here and there and a fourth dungeon is at least a 1/3 of the way finished. Thus far I'm doing it alone, but I'm okay with that. Once this is finished I guess we will share the credits, even if I never hear from him again.
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Re: dungeon entrance from a house

Post by SunGodPortal on Thu 28 Jan 2016 - 21:45

Seems like a good opportunity to share this:

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Just something funny from the original BCvsG. Very Happy
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Re: dungeon entrance from a house

Post by wizzrobemaster on Fri 29 Jan 2016 - 0:13

will there be new items?

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Re: dungeon entrance from a house

Post by SunGodPortal on Fri 29 Jan 2016 - 0:38

will there be new items?

I doubt it. I can't think of anything I'd want to make besides my idea for something similar to the Nimbus:

Bee Jar: Releases a single (limit 1) bee for a small/medium amount of MP to be used early in a game before there is a sword. Another good use would be to place an enemy way out of reach in a "kill enemy to open" room and use the bee to take them out. While I would like to make something like this I don't really have time to learn ASM since I am already going to be busy designing dungeons, drawing graphics, designing and inserting a title screen, redesigning the overworld, rewriting the script and whatever else. Basically everything.
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Re: dungeon entrance from a house

Post by wizzrobemaster on Fri 29 Jan 2016 - 2:14

that is hyrule magic for you. also when I tried to emove the doors in the twin room, eventually my rom went corrupt once again. as for the less linear dungeons, it is extremely difficult to make the tower of hera non-linear.

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Re: dungeon entrance from a house

Post by SunGodPortal on Fri 29 Jan 2016 - 2:35

also when I tried to emove the doors in the twin room, eventually my rom went corrupt once again

Yes. doing anything to these rooms should be avoided at all costs. Seriously. Don't mess with them.

as for the less linear dungeons, it is extremely difficult to make the tower of hera non-linear.

Not surprising. It basically like what, 5 "rooms"? I suppose a person could make better use of this space if they chopped the quadrants up into 4 rooms a piece and used a bunch of stairs, warps and holes.
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Re: dungeon entrance from a house

Post by Puzzledude on Fri 29 Jan 2016 - 7:08

Does anyone know if the transition from the "castle" dungeon to the "church" dungeon is special? Earlier I was wondering if what wizrobemaster is wanting would be troublesome due to the "dungeon properties" and how these are activated or changed, but if in the first part of the game you can go from one dungeon to another without ever stepping outside I don't see why this can't work.
This is Not one dungeon, but a higly complex thing (programing wise).
These are actually 3 dungeons. Once you move the mantle, special ASM will tell the game to start loading "another dungeon" and the transit is blanked out - since going to the dark room. The big key from the castle will no longer work here. Now you are in the sewers (separate dungeon), but the wall blockset is the same (just on different pal).

Moving yet another Mantle (altar) to the church will trigger yet another ASM to go to the 3rd dungeon - ie the church.

That's why they made this a one way trip, so you can never move the first or the second mantle to get back to this (complex) dungeon(s).

Entering at Hyrule castle and coming out in the church was probably a nightmare dungeon to make for the developers. 2 custom ASMs, two special bariers (first barrier-mantle can only be move with Zelda following you - plus having the Lamp) etc. They also needed to find one wall blockset to match the castle, sewers and church, while on different Pal.

Like said before, avoid such multiple dungeons and transits from caves to dungeons and from houses to dungeons. The game like this: one dungeon - one entrance (easily defined as dungeon, while having one type of blockset, one pal and one sprite blockset - then you can reset the pals and spites on staircases, which lead to higher or lower levels).

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Re: dungeon entrance from a house

Post by wizzrobemaster on Fri 29 Jan 2016 - 10:41

so that means Zelda 3 technically has 15 dungeons?

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Re: dungeon entrance from a house

Post by SunGodPortal on Fri 29 Jan 2016 - 15:50

so that means Zelda 3 technically has 15 dungeons?

That's what it says in Hyrule Magic, but there are only dungeon properties for 12.
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Re: dungeon entrance from a house

Post by Puzzledude on Fri 29 Jan 2016 - 16:41

so that means Zelda 3 technically has 15 dungeons?
In a theory, since they never inserted big keys to sewer or Church (or the big chest in castle1).
All together you can obtain the big key (compass and map) in Castle, Sewers, Church, Castle2, 3 pendants, 7 crystals, and Ganon tower. At least this is how the game sees it.

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