Erock's Dungeon Designs 2014-2017

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Post by Erockbrox on Mon 29 Jul 2013 - 19:19

So I just had a great idea to lure Gamemakr into coming to Zeldix! Instead of sending submissions to him directly by e-mail like I have been doing for years I will just be posting them here! So if he wants to see them he has to come here! BRILLIANT!

And here is the e-mail that I sent him.

Erockbrox wrote:So I was playing around with blocks again last night and after an hour or so I came up with something and its pretty awesome!

Normally I'd just attach the file or picture to your e-mail, but..........

If you really want to see my next submission then you will have to log in to Zeldix! Hahahahah! Got ya! Smile

Also normally I wouldn't post anything publicly because of spoilers, but remember Zeldix is a PRIVATE message board and I'm pretty confident that there are enough people there who respect the Calatia project enough such that there isn't any blatantly copying and pasting of someone designs into other rom hacks.

So yeah, if you want to see it then you better log in!

After reading about the infinitely pushable blocks that Conn and Puzzledude worked on I was inspired to make some puzzles out of those blocks. So as I said, last night I was just toying around with some ideas and I finally came up with something. Now, I did not come up with a puzzle involving the infinitely pushable blocks, but instead just came up with a block puzzle with ordinary blocks.

When I was trying to make puzzles using the infinitely pushable blocks I noticed that there aren't too many restrictions regarding where you can push it and the only time when you can't push it any further is when you push it into a corner or otherwise when two of the blocks sides adjacent sides are touching something. So I then though about the third case, when the block is not pushed into a corner and also not touching anything. This case is when a block or infinitely pushable block is only being touched on one of its sides. Now normally this doesn't really mean anything, lets say that you had a wall that was forever long and then you had a brick or infinitely pushable brick having one of its sides being touched to that wall. Well, then technically you could never then remove that brick from that wall! It's stuck on the wall forever. So in short that's how I came up with this idea for a puzzle. I imagined a very long wall and placed treasure chests within that wall and then placed pushable bricks touching that wall and since they are only touching on one side they are essentially "stuck" there forever.

Here are just some brainstorming sketches. Usually all of my puzzles and designs start out as quick sketches on paper and then later are created in Hyrule Magic.

Normally I never really post any sketches because its not a finished product, but I wanted to show everyone here the basic process that goes through my head. Basically just tinker with a bunch of ideas until you make something!

Erock's Dungeon Designs 2014-2017 Sketch1_zps3230373e

Erock's Dungeon Designs 2014-2017 Sketch2_zps8b851c4c

Erock's Dungeon Designs 2014-2017 Sketch3_zps175dfc04

Those spike things are supposed to be touches, but it could have been any random object.

Erock's Dungeon Designs 2014-2017 Sketch4_zps2195bd23

This is when I finally came up with something.

Erock's Dungeon Designs 2014-2017 Sketch5_zps5662e122


Basically the idea here is an simple one. All I'm doing is putting a pushable block in from of a chest! THAT'S IT! WOW! But, this type of puzzle is very easy to solve when you only have one chest. If you have the case with two chests, with a block separating them in-between it still is just too easy to solve. Now, when you get to three chests then you really have to think about it. And having four chests is also interesting too, however having 5 chests or 6 chests only really repeats the same idea as the 4 chest puzzle so they would just be redundant.

Here is the 3 chest puzzle.

Erock's Dungeon Designs 2014-2017 3chests_zps9cfa168c

Erock's Dungeon Designs 2014-2017 3chestsblock_zps4095737d

And here are some possible outcomes. Note that there are many more ways to get it right or not.

Erock's Dungeon Designs 2014-2017 3chestsblockwrongright_zpsdd1b6e97


Okay, now for the four chest puzzle. Interestingly, this one has fewer solutions than the three block simply because there is more stuff to go wrong. So basically to solve this one the player just has to shift all blocks down consistently and starting from the far right or far left. If you start in the middle you're screwed. You can also solve it by starting at one end and then going to the other end pushing the blocks working your way from the outside inward.

Erock's Dungeon Designs 2014-2017 4chests_zps5339f485

Erock's Dungeon Designs 2014-2017 4chestsblockversion_zps8e430a06

Erock's Dungeon Designs 2014-2017 4chestsblocksolution_zpsed47165e

Erock's Dungeon Designs 2014-2017 4chestsblockwrong_zpse91cef1e

So here is the thing. If I remember correctly, in Zelda 3 if you walk into a house or room, you can move blocks around, but if you mess up they then reset so you can try again. The only thing I don't like about these puzzles is that a person can get all of the chests even if they do it wrong. They could get three of them the first time then reset the puzzle and get the last one. Ideally it would be nice if they had to get them all in one go.

Its a simple idea yet actually requires the player to think to try and solve it. Okay, so this post was WAY long, but oh well I guess I'm starting this thread off with a bang!

Loads more to come!


Last edited by Erockbrox on Tue 7 Mar 2017 - 17:48; edited 2 times in total
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Post by Puzzledude on Tue 30 Jul 2013 - 6:55

Quote
Well, then technically you could never then remove that brick from that wall! It's stuck on the wall forever.
 
Yes, that's the whole point of a box that can not be pulled. There are some more basic rules. 4 boxes put together in a square can not move, 2 boxes together aside the wall can not move. 2 boxes together vertically mean only horizontal pushes are possible, if there's a 1 unit tunnel and a wall on the left has an opening, while having an unpushable block on the other side, the box can not leave the tunnel, but the player can (suitable to fence the box to define a pushable area).

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Post by Euclid on Tue 30 Jul 2013 - 8:37

I was feeling a bit inspired, here's what i came up with:

Erock's Dungeon Designs 2014-2017 Blockpuzzle1

Feel free to use it =D (solve it first though Very Happy )

If only we had unlimited movable blocks in the rom...
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Post by Puzzledude on Tue 30 Jul 2013 - 8:57

Unsolvable. You can never get to the chest, since the only possible way is blocked by spike. If the spike is a block, also unsolvable. The only thing you can do is to push the block so, that it blocks the chest from the bottom, forming a squared 4 (unmovable).

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Post by Erockbrox on Tue 30 Jul 2013 - 14:59

I'm going to agree with Puzzledude. I'm guessing it can't be solved, unless you can push a block on top of the spike.

Euclid wrote:If only we had unlimited movable blocks in the rom...

This is why it might be a good idea to make a sprite version of a block.
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Post by Puzzledude on Tue 30 Jul 2013 - 15:20

Another possibility is to find a way to simply make the hex-area of the block data to Not be hardcoded to 80. The blocks are actually using 4 pointers (which is strange) to form 4x80 in hex block (which eaquals to128 blocks maximum), since they have no FF to end, while one block is 4 bytes.

Since I can repoint the block data, it should be allowed to have unlimited blocks, but it reads only 80 in hex after the pointer by default. Bringing this default hex-block to more, like 800, will (for instance) result in 1280 blocks in the game. I don't think the emus can handle more.

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Post by Conn on Tue 30 Jul 2013 - 16:03

Got the solution: Really nice, Euclid! :p

Here's my pic with HM (don't want to spoil you, but if you look closely you'll see how I managed :d

Erock's Dungeon Designs 2014-2017 Musicf10
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Post by Erockbrox on Tue 30 Jul 2013 - 17:18

Oh I see. Totally forgot to hook-shot over/threw the spike!

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Post by Puzzledude on Tue 30 Jul 2013 - 17:49

:shock:
 
I guess Euclid got us, using his tricks.

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Post by Erockbrox on Wed 4 Sep 2013 - 3:22

Well I came up with another block puzzle.

Erock's Dungeon Designs 2014-2017 Another3chestpuzzle_zpsc1f728c8

And can someone please explain to me how to use those Zelda 3 save states that are listed on these message boards. I don't want to play though this game again and that link to the save states... well i downloaded them, but couldn't figure out how to use them.
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Post by Erockbrox on Thu 5 Sep 2013 - 0:55

Here are a few more of my ideas for the Calatia hack.

Use the block before it drops!!




OMG! The floor is falling.



Erock's Dungeon Designs 2014-2017 Doublefloortilesfall_zps00415638


Fork In The Road

Erock's Dungeon Designs 2014-2017 Forkintheroad_zpsf9253453


Last edited by Erockbrox on Sat 7 Sep 2013 - 1:37; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Erockbrox on Thu 5 Sep 2013 - 2:53

^ SePH

1. Push the movable block

2. Use the cape.

3. Boot dash into the block

4. Get to the other side.

If you put a blue bumper on the other side of a pit you can't use the bomb trick!

Basically the idea behind it is that the player can only pick one path to explore and must save the other path for later and can't simply just go back.

Also I totally forgot about that hard optional puzzle. Now that I think about it, I remember seeing it a long time ago.
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Post by Erockbrox on Thu 5 Sep 2013 - 3:40

Hopping Puzzles!

Erock's Dungeon Designs 2014-2017 Hoppingpuzzle_zps2f537c52

Erock's Dungeon Designs 2014-2017 Hoppingpuzzle2_zpsaeb55d21

Inspired by SePH and Puzzledude!
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Post by scawful on Thu 5 Sep 2013 - 22:25

That fork in the road is actually a really ingenious idea. But it also implies blocks can't be moved infinitely Crying or Very sad 

Damn nintendo couldnt put both kinds of blocks in the game
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Post by Erockbrox on Fri 6 Sep 2013 - 2:39

I think I made those small hopping puzzles such that the distance between the squares is too short so they might have to be in a slightly larger room and speaking of larger rooms...

Here is the big hopping puzzle! Original idea by Puzzledude and SePH.

Erock's Dungeon Designs 2014-2017 Superbig111_zps7f236229

And another version.

Erock's Dungeon Designs 2014-2017 Superbig222_zpsf3b5c39a
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Post by Puzzledude on Fri 6 Sep 2013 - 6:15

This looks familiar. Nice that you like our ideas and made your own versions. Note, the distance must be exact, like in your version. The middle small square is actually a big one, surrounded by the invisible objects, to make Link jump (and don't forget the hidden staircase, you need to insert; otherwise Link will jump to bg2). The edge pieces must have the outer part fenced, otherwise you can jump into a wall.

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Post by Erockbrox on Fri 6 Sep 2013 - 13:31

Here is a dash boots version!

Erock's Dungeon Designs 2014-2017 Dashbootspuzzlefix_zps84b49e52

Also Puzzledude I used a key in these puzzles, but this would have to be changed into something else. Remember you can use the boomerang to grab a key far away! And that would break these puzzles. This would also apply to your puzzle as well unless the puzzles are for when you don't have the boomerang yet. The keys which can't be grabbed by the boomerang are the ones which are knocked off of lanterns and other high places via the boot dash. Hope that helps.
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Post by GameMakr24 on Thu 12 Sep 2013 - 23:38

Here goes a long reply to a long thread!

Hey Erock!  I finally have the time to read all this!  Smile  It's very cool to see the various rules for movable blocks.  I like the puzzle you set up with 3 and 4 blocks in front of chests, though I must say the solution jumped right out at me.  Still, you're thinking along the right lines!

Hey SePH!  Thanks for posting all those old forum archives!  I re-read almost everything there -- I can see why you miss them.  Smile  I can't believe those were 6 or 7 years ago, as they feel so recent.  I can't help but be super-psyched about all the monster discussions, especially.  The graphics and AI we were coming up with were asounding.

Erock, the block puzzle with the spike block in the center is very cool.  Without the hookshot, it would indeed be unsolvable, and you can tell just by ignoring all but the top four blocks.  Those four render it impossible, as the only two moves you can make will cover the front of the chest.  Anyway, I totally forgot you can hookshot over spike blocks; this will be very important to advanced puzzles!

The scenarios with the falling floors were very entertaining.  Smile

That fork in the road concept is not one I had thought of!  Move the block here or there, but you must commit!  Nice!

SePH -- that video you posted of the insane PW puzzle had me laughing hysterically.  I'm not sure what's going on with all the fake objects and walls, but I would definitely not create a room like that!  At least the player gets a heart container for their troubles.  The "mushroom if you don't have powder" trick was sneaky, especially since it's hidden beyond a reward room, Metroid-style!  I like that the player thought he would have to climb the tower again, but the mirror brought him to a door he had recently come in from. At the end, that mirror glitch in Ganon's room freaked me out!

Erock, quick question since you're the object-interactions genius.  Will the bomb trick get you over two pit tiles, or just one?  If two, it will render lots of boot-crashing jumps as two-way paths instead of just one-way paths. Sad

I don't understand the hopping puzzles.  Is there a feather I don't know about? Reading further, I see it pertains to hidden objects and tile types...

In the dash boots puzzle, once you have the key, you'd better also have the mirror, or be willing to take damage by falling.  (I don't like puzzles where you're required to get hurt.)

In closing, lots of creativity in this thread!  Smile There's some very good content here.
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Post by scawful on Thu 12 Sep 2013 - 23:44

GameMakr24 wrote:
I don't understand the hopping puzzles.  Is there a feather I don't know about?  Reading further, I see it pertains to hidden objects and tile types...
Yeah, it's tile types, as if you're jumping off an upper level and it's manipulated to work like jumping. There is a feather my friend made but it is a work in progress. If I ever manage to get it finished I'll make it public if you'd like to use something like that in your hack Smile
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Post by Erockbrox on Fri 13 Sep 2013 - 1:52

Here is the dash boot puzzle fix! This way they don't have to hurt themselves.

Erock's Dungeon Designs 2014-2017 Bootdashfix_zpscbf1185d

[edit] Actually this puzzles fails because you can just bomb jump your way to the key. So the real trouble is that if you make an exit after you get the key that exit becomes an entrance! A good solution would be to have one of those warp tiles instead of having a key so that you just transport somewhere else and so that you don't have to get hurt.

And that block puzzle with the spike block is actually Euclid's. So credit goes to him for making it!

Bomb jumping is possible with a 1 16x16 square distance and also with a 2 16x16 square distance, but I made the puzzle so that you don't have to bomb jump! Its supposed to be user friendly!!!Very Happy 

Or you could just disable bomb jumping altogether! Make a custom hack where Link doesn't get thrown as far or doesn't get hurt by his own bombs!

The hopping puzzle was a great idea by Puzzle Dude and SePH. I simply just made my own variation. If you click on the youtube link you can see theirs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6huAN9dlz3Q
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Post by Erockbrox on Fri 13 Sep 2013 - 3:33

Either disable the bomb jump trick or put a warp like so.

Erock's Dungeon Designs 2014-2017 Dashbootspuzzlewarpfix_zpsb0a10430

And just make the warp go to another part of the dungeon where maybe there is a key or special item to obtain.

Also there is a reason why I'm putting a key or warp in these puzzles near the doors where you can walk. I'm doing this so that the player can actually see it and know that this is the goal to be obtained. Just think if I placed the key or warp way far back in the puzzle, then nobody would know right away that its the goal for the player.
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Post by Puzzledude on Fri 13 Sep 2013 - 6:34

You don't need the warp here. The picture in the previous version is fine. You can only bomb-jump by two pixel gaps, 3 pixels are very difficult, 4 is not happening to bomb-jump across.

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Post by Erockbrox on Fri 13 Sep 2013 - 14:52

^ well in my previous version all you have to do is do two bomb jumps and then you get the key so it breaks the layout. Those spaces are only 2 tiles wide each.
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Post by Puzzledude on Fri 13 Sep 2013 - 15:28

So you are saying you could bomb jump across those pits? Since those pits are 4 pixels wide (4 small ones, or 2 big ones). You should not be able to bomb jump that distance (specially horizontally). Have you tested this in-game.

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Post by Erockbrox on Fri 13 Sep 2013 - 16:04

I tested it in game and yes, you can bomb jump vertically across this pits and also horizontally.

Erock's Dungeon Designs 2014-2017 Bombjump_zps23ed3492
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