Erock's Dungeon Designs 2014-2017

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Post by Puzzledude on Sun 27 Oct 2013 - 17:57

If you put it on a button which needs to be held down and then run into it. The button will still be down until the block has landed fully. You can then make a puzzle where the button opens one door, dash into it, walk through the door, the block lands on another button which opens a second door when the first one will close.
 
Unfortunatelly this is not possible with Alttp engine, once you go through the door, everything will reset, thus going through the door, will make the block dissapear (so it can not land anymore).
 
 
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This can not be done in Alttp. The door in the middle will make a scrool bug and can not even be placed on this possition. Nor can you make the first door compatible with the first switch and the second door to second switch. One switch will address all doors in the room.

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Post by scawful on Sun 27 Oct 2013 - 18:44

What about that non-scrolling door thing Spane did? Couldn't you theoretically use a big area (taking up two small rooms) to make this using non scrolling doors?
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Post by Erockbrox on Sun 27 Oct 2013 - 23:48

Surprisingly block puzzles are pretty hard to make. If I tried to make this one any harder then it would not be solvable. Assume all blocks are movable.

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Post by Erockbrox on Mon 28 Oct 2013 - 2:35



Please note not all enemies can be killed by pushing them into the spikes. The Red Rocklops cannot be killed this way and can only be killed with arrows.
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Post by Tompala on Mon 28 Oct 2013 - 9:36

Yeah, I thought that you couldn't make doors likes that. Just felt like spreading out the idea of how to use the Cane of Somaria for other uses too =).

As for block puzzles in general... While I guess it is a glitch, while a block is moving you can shoot things through it. Such as the fire rod and hookshot. This would make for more puzzle ideas, though probably not good to include the use of a glitch to do it. I have abused it a couple of times in various Zelda hacks at least Smile.

And in the Japanese version, 1.0, you can even make blocks disappear by using the mirror while they are moving. Though not doable in a dungeon, as you'll just warp back to the entrance.

Nice stuff with the icemen too! Never thought about having spikes to kill such enemies, really neat.

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Post by Erockbrox on Mon 28 Oct 2013 - 19:38

I made the most simplistic puzzle involving the movable block shoot going though it trick. You could of course come up with more complicated ones.

The reason I did a vertical barrier was to avoid the red brick exploit where you can get a fireball from the red brick over a high wall barrier.

The only thing that breaks this idea is the red canes bricks.

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Post by Tompala on Tue 29 Oct 2013 - 11:31

The hookshot works fine too. It's just that for the puzzle you made, with the narrow space, makes the position crucial for it to work. Otherwise you'll hit the wall. Same goes for the Fire Rod, for example. It's not about the timing, it's about the position. With more space they will all be a lot easier to do.

Cane of Somaria could work if you need to hit two switches shortly after eachother. So that one beam has to go through the pushable block and the other one to the left/up/down. In order to bypass two sets of blocks at once. Though in that case a bomb could probably work too, so I guess it would be quite pointless anyway =).

Just to point out... This same glitch works in both Link's Awakening and the Oracles.

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Post by Erockbrox on Wed 30 Oct 2013 - 7:45

This room was very very hard for me to set up due to the conveyer belts and the red orb (blue bumper).

See if you can figure it out.

Assume that the blue bumper does not move on conveyer belts and that the lizard drops a key.

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Post by Tompala on Wed 30 Oct 2013 - 11:47

One way it can be done, to get the key at least, is to have the lizard die in the topleft corner and grab the key in midair above the block afterwards Smile. Though surely not the intended way.

Another would be to kill him so he dies on the conveyer belt, and have the key travel to you? I actually don't know if the key is able to travel on the belt, can't remember any such place in ALttP at least. And if the key can't go there, I guess you could freeze the lizard and have it ride the belt instead.

It is possible to throw either a bomb or a Somaria's block through the wall to the right, as long as you have both of them. That could at least help to push it to the belt I guess, which can just as well be done with the sword or other items. Also not sure if that method is even known Smile.

None of my solution ideas have any effect on the bumper, unless a frozen enemy do which I suppose is the case. But yeah, I'm not 100% sure what you had in mind, unless some of the blocks are pushable.

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Post by Erockbrox on Wed 30 Oct 2013 - 14:23

Not only do keys ride conveyer belts, but also other things as well.

Here is a list of known thing which ride conveyer belts:

Small Key
Big Key
Small Magic Bag
Big Magic Container
Arrows
Bombs
Heart
Rupee
Enemies
Red Brick
Link
Beamos

Interestingly the Dash Item which could be a key does not ride on conveyer belts while the regular keys do!

I will have to try out heart containers and see if they ride conveyer belts too.

I will post solution later to the puzzle.
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Post by Tompala on Wed 30 Oct 2013 - 16:30

Beamos on conveyor belts are used in the original game afterall =P.

I already had solutions to getting the key. Just don't know which one you had in mind, as I guess it is a different one.

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Post by Erockbrox on Thu 31 Oct 2013 - 13:09

As you guys guessed it, yep you want to kill the monster while it is on top of a conveyer belt, this way when the enemy drops the key the key will ride the conveyer belt and then it is able to be obtained with the boomerang.

The bumper is there to prevent the monster from leaving that particular spot yet also allowing the key to pass.

My original idea was to make the player use bombos since the monster is surrounded by the high walls, but as Tompala pointed out you can also do this by ether and freeze the enemy.

If you use bombos or ether when the monster is not on top of a conveyer belt tile then you cannot get the key as the key just sits there.

The only hard part is finding a place for the bumper so that it does not ride the conveyer belt too, which is possible if you play around with it enough.


Here are some rooms I set up just messing around with the default tile sets just trying to see what I can make, something I've never really done before until now.

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Post by Tompala on Thu 31 Oct 2013 - 14:55

Oh yeah, was kinda obvious what the bumper was for now when I'm thinking about it.

I feel like making my own puzzle rooms now, hehe. We'll see Smile.

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Post by GameMakr24 on Sat 2 Nov 2013 - 10:37

Awesome stuff!  I don't like the "shoot through moving block" puzzle, as it makes no sense and is definitely a glitch.  I see that more as a cautionary puzzle, to be mindful lest a player break a puzzle that has a more complicated solution!  Erock, I'm glad you'll be beta-testing my dungeons.  You're definitely the expert in these matters!

Oh boy oh boy. Just checked out my diary page and it hasn't been updated in a while, better get to work!
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Post by Erockbrox on Sun 9 Feb 2014 - 0:04

So I came up an interesting idea. I wanted to make the player detonate the red brick in mid-air. I came up with one of these a long time ago and sent it to GM, but it was only a simple peg blocking a chest and pegswitch.

This design allows not only to hide a secret, but also the path to another doorway or even jumping down into the bottomless pit itself once the player has lowered the pegs.

It's pretty neat and there will be a youtube video coming soon. I changed the screenshot to have statues instead of regular blocks an order to block the fireballs from the red brick that can be sneakily shot over without having to throw the brick over the pit.

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Also there are somethings that I've been wanting to make that I just haven't gotten around to making yet.

Here are some screen shots which certain themes that I want to recreate and turn into puzzles.

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So I'll be working on them and I'll post them when I'm ready.
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Post by Erockbrox on Fri 21 Feb 2014 - 2:27

I came across something interesting regarding throwing red bricks and bombs over movable blocks.

You can throw bombs and red bricks over a movable block, but once you move it you cannot throw those same items over it.



Here is a puzzle I made involving this phenomena. Assume those bricks are all movable bricks. The player would initially try and move the bricks an order to get to the peg switch since all of their items normally wouldn't work over the bricks. They would try and solve the brick puzzle, but since the puzzle is impossible they would fail. They might get the idea to try and throw something over the bricks, but when they did try they might be trying after the bricks and see that it doesn't work.

Only by using a bomb or red brick and throwing it before touching any of the bricks can the blue pegs be lowered and thus go to the other door.

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or

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Post by Potentialing on Fri 21 Feb 2014 - 16:26

Very nice finds, man. As for directing the player, you could always trap the player in a position where the only way to get out of the room (besides going back and resetting the puzzle) is to either solve the puzzle or use the magic mirror. You could put a hint box/sign nearby the puzzle to hint at the possibility. Really liking this find, and I can see some awesome puzzles with it (and could get even crazier with moving conveyor belt tiles)
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Post by Tompala on Mon 24 Feb 2014 - 16:43

It's similar to why you can shoot things (Like fire rod and hookshot) through a block while it is moving. Which you previously stated that you wouldn't want to use as it is a glitch. Might as well use those too if you decide to use this version =).

Here is another way to throw items through blocks that is more complicated


Basically, just pick up the second bomb (Can also be a pot, bush, cane of somaria block etc.) after throwing the first one. Works with all directions. Though you can't be too close to the wall, or it won't work. At least not to my knowledge. A lot of players have probably done this by accident in Ganon's Tower, when you have to bomb the floor to reach the Armos Knights. Throwing the bomb, picking up the pot and the bomb goes down through the wall.

If you do it with the Cane of Somaria, you can also run into it and then pick up the bomb. So that the block can travel further distance if needed.

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Post by Erockbrox on Tue 25 Feb 2014 - 3:19

After thinking about the ability to hookshot though a movable block I decided to make a puzzle involving just that.

Assume that all blocks are movable.

On the left the goal is to get to the treasure chest. An order to get to the chest you must push the center block upward, but don't forget to hookshot while you push it! And as a special bonus, the player needs to push one of the blocks on the side walls before they get the chest so that they have an escape route. Smile

The one on the right is like the hookshot though the blocks, but only involves spikes. Again the player must plan ahead of time and push a block on the side wall before getting the chest to ensure that they can escape. Although they could use the mirror to escape if they had accidentally pushed the wrong side block thus blocking them in!

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Post by Puzzledude on Tue 25 Feb 2014 - 6:50

Despite the fact that these puzzles are great and constructive, with my experiences with players, who are playing what I've done in the past - the players dislike all "try and error" puzzles.

What this means is that any puzzle should never come to a paradox in which you can't do anything. Imagine you don't have the mirror or that you are deep in the dungeon. If you hookshot the chest on the right, you are in a direct paradox (no way out, worst scenario). If you move the center block on the left and don't hookshot right after, you are in a non-solvable situation (you must reset the puzzle by leaving and coming back, not the worst scenario but unpopular with players).

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Post by Erockbrox on Tue 25 Feb 2014 - 22:49

I took your thoughts into consideration and I believe that I came up with an even better design! thanks puzzledude

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Also the boarders in this forum cut my image so that you can't see all of it. Maybe that needs to be fixed on these boards. If you want to see the whole image just right click and select view.

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Post by Erockbrox on Wed 26 Feb 2014 - 5:35

Floor switches activate if you hover above them while using the hookshot.

I'm going to make a puzzle out of it next post.

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Post by Puzzledude on Wed 26 Feb 2014 - 6:46

This idea with the added pit is a great solution. Now it is, the way it is supposed to be.

Regarding the long work on Calatia. If you want your puzzles to be seen in a game, you might want to make some for some other projects, since I know that Spane and Moegami are working mostly on overworlds and could use a puzzle or two for the indoors.

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Post by Tompala on Wed 26 Feb 2014 - 7:54

Erock: And that also works with the star switches as well. Though Link can go straight through the warps with the hookshot, without being warped. Felt like mentioning in case you didn't know that either =).

Here's an idea of a puzzle:


One could for example add holes between the two sides of blocks, so that using this hookshot method would be the only way to cross. With some object you can hookshot through, but not walk through, on the left side of the first blocks. Or whatever... I hope you get the idea Smile.

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Post by Erockbrox on Tue 8 Apr 2014 - 1:30

I was randomly watching Zelda 3 hacking videos on youtube and was struck by some inspiration.

I don't think that I have ever created a block puzzle like this before.

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The player will naturally go straight and be forced to push the block forward, but by pushing the block forward the player falls for the trap and now cannot solve the puzzle to get the chest.

So the player must actually take the path to the right or left and then push the block from the side to then get to the chest.

I never thought about something like this until just now.
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