adding new white dot exits

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adding new white dot exits

Post by wizzrobemaster on Sat 9 Jan 2016 - 18:53

I am working on making an open world Zelda 3 with hidden shortcuts, but the problem I find is that the dark world lacks many exit caves (i.e. one way exits).  is there any way through rom expansion that I can create new exists or is this limitation too difficult to edit due to max capacity?

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Re: adding new white dot exits

Post by Puzzledude on Sun 10 Jan 2016 - 6:12

It is Not possible to add more exits (white dot) then what the original game has, it is also not possible to add entrances (yellow dot). Expansion will not help at all.

It is not possible to change a cave, which only has a yellow dot as entrance and exit, to become a connection cave (ie has an exit else where).

It is also not possible to make a connection cave, if the room is above 255. And in the dark world caves or houses and light world houses these rooms are used. So they were made specifically to not be connected and have the entrance and the exit united in yellow dot. So these rooms can not serve as connections to other caves.

Making a connection/shortcut cave is very difficult and will require rooms bellow 255, two entrances (yellow dot) which are by default not entrance/exit, and thus 2 white dot exits. All of this is already used in original Alttp.

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Re: adding new white dot exits

Post by wizzrobemaster on Sun 10 Jan 2016 - 11:24

what about already existing connecting caves such as from kakariko and moving them to the dark world? will that work or will the entrances still act as the light world?

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Re: adding new white dot exits

Post by SunGodPortal on Sun 10 Jan 2016 - 17:34

what about already existing connecting caves such as from kakariko and moving them to the dark world? will that work or will the entrances still act as the light world?

Apart from how your entrance/exits are set up on the overworld map, I don't think the game can tell the difference between dark and light world when it comes to rooms. You go in and when you come out it puts you out where you came in from.

If you want to move a cave from the light world to the dark world all you have to do is redrawn that part of the overworld, set your entrance and if need be (if the room is below 256) set your exit.
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Re: adding new white dot exits

Post by wizzrobemaster on Sun 10 Jan 2016 - 19:14

I tested it out and I am rearranging entrances. one issue I am having is when link exits a house sometimes he goes through the door without opening it.  in other words I used the treasure mini-game room (i.e. exit 67) and changed it to the entrance of sahasrahla's home,  but when I leave the room, I do not appear in the right position when exiting the house. also no music plays when I changed the setting to "same."

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Re: adding new white dot exits

Post by SunGodPortal on Sun 10 Jan 2016 - 22:45

I find the entrances/exits to be one of the most annoying things to edit. There are a number of things that need to be "just right" for them to work as expected.

You may already know this, but whether the door actually opens or not is related to some of the exit coordinates. That part in particular is very troublesome. The right options must be selected but also the right coordinates need to be set. I can't remember all of the details since I'm just getting back into overworld editing after a long stint of dungeon editing, but I recall the compendium and some of my previous posts having some useful information about this.
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Re: adding new white dot exits

Post by wizzrobemaster on Sun 10 Jan 2016 - 23:33

one thing I noticed is that when I relocate entrances, sometimes the exits are messed up but when I move an entrance with a white exit then little to no problems occur. I read somewhere that this is an issue with hyrule magic that was never fixed.

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Re: adding new white dot exits

Post by SePH on Sun 10 Jan 2016 - 23:42

It's possible to go enter a cave from the light world and exit into the dark world but it requires asm as demonstrated by Conn eons ago:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

There are actually LOTS of issues with HM that were never fixed :-P

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Re: adding new white dot exits

Post by wizzrobemaster on Mon 11 Jan 2016 - 0:08

well I am not trying to connect light and dark world. I am replacing exits from the light world locations into the dark world as I am working on a full open world Zelda 3. the only light world restrictions are the beginning in hyrule castle (which I will try to make less linear) and the pulling the of the master sword for agahnim's tower. the dark world however, will only have the restriction of certain dungeon items required for the dungeon. how to I edit the properties of a yellow entrance or remove the door on the over world?

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Re: adding new white dot exits

Post by SunGodPortal on Mon 11 Jan 2016 - 0:21

one thing I noticed is that when I relocate entrances, sometimes the exits are messed up but when I move an entrance with a white exit then little to no problems occur. I read somewhere that this is an issue with hyrule magic that was never fixed.

Are you referring to crashes or the door not reacting or the open door graphics showing up in the wrong place?

how to I edit the properties of a yellow entrance or remove the door on the over world?

If you know a yellow dot that you want to edit, double click on it (with the entrance tab selected) and it will open up in the dungeon editor. There will be a list of coordinates as well as the room number. So, for example if you wanted a door to go to (just pulling random numbers here) room 35 instead of room 56, you just need to change the room number in the bottom left corner of the dungeon editor. If the rooms aren't similar enough you may have to adjust the X and Y coordinates as well. It's best to just copy those from a room with a similar set up.

As for removing the door, are you talking about the graphics (like completely removing the door) or making the door open properly?
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Re: adding new white dot exits

Post by wizzrobemaster on Mon 11 Jan 2016 - 0:35

well I want the door to open properly. here is what is happening. so I moved the entrance from the treasure shop (i.e. entrance 67) to sahasrahla's house as I want to use that as the entrance instead. the entrance/exits from sahasrahla's house I plan on editing as a tunnel for death mountain. now when I use entrance 67 in kakariko, I get the opened door to appear underneath the ledge of blind's hideout, but only when I exit the house (which has no white exit due to a one way entrance/exit). how do I change the coordinates for outside to match up with the entrance?

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Re: adding new white dot exits

Post by SunGodPortal on Mon 11 Jan 2016 - 1:20

When you open that entrance up in the dungeon editor, in the panel at the bottom-left there will be a button that says "More". Open that and at the bottom you will see properties related to the outside door. You'll need to input the proper X/Y coordinates for the open door graphic to show up in the right place. Since you are placing this where a door already exists the easiest way to fix this would be to copy the X/Y coordinates from the entrance that you are replacing. That will remove the guess work.
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Re: adding new white dot exits

Post by wizzrobemaster on Mon 11 Jan 2016 - 1:34

well I am not using a white dot exit. it is just the yellow entrance. also the only I still face right now with that entrance is that the kakariko music is not continuous when I exit. the theme replays itself. also how to fix stair entrances? when I exit, I walk over the entrance and I am not moving up the stairs.

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Re: adding new white dot exits

Post by SunGodPortal on Mon 11 Jan 2016 - 1:46

well I am not using a white dot exit. it is just the yellow entrance.

You should be able to take the coordinates from the entrance/exit that you are no longer using and copy them over into the entrance that you are now using in it's place using the method I described above. Otherwise you will have to guess the coordinates which requires a lot of trial and error.

Not sure about the music or the stairs though
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Re: adding new white dot exits

Post by Puzzledude on Mon 11 Jan 2016 - 6:45

so I moved the entrance from the treasure shop (i.e. entrance 67) to sahasrahla's house as I want to use that as the entrance instead. the entrance/exits from sahasrahla's house I plan on editing as a tunnel for death mountain.
What a terrible idea.
I believe I explaned in my post above, that this is not possible to do.
You can move the yellow dot entrance from shop to sahasrahlas house, but you need to disable the door-overlay, when you exit, since sahasrahla's house has no door (luckily).

Sahasrahla's house has an entrance, which is type: house. This entrance leads to the room above 255 by default and is an entrance/exit. Not a chance to be able to use this entrance or room it leads to as a connection cave to Death Mountain.

Like I said before: you want one new connection cave, then remove one existing connection cave - this is how it works.
You can not add a connection cave, while having all the connection caves, (that exist in Alttp), intact.

Don't try to connect houses to other places, the game's engine doesn't work like that. Also, editing rooms above 255 will surely cause bugs.

You also can not connect rooms below 255 and above 255 with warps or staircases, which is exactly what you wish with your connection from a house (above 255) to a Death mountain cave (below 255).

Regarding the music: this can be troublesome, since the default music for light world when exiting any cave is Wordmap music and standard dark world music for dark world. Changing that will need that music ASM, which Conn wrote a while back.

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Re: adding new white dot exits

Post by wizzrobemaster on Mon 11 Jan 2016 - 12:17

actually sahasrahla's house is 242-3. what I did when I edited the house was that I removed a door and made it a long single room.  anyway I moved the entrance/exit to the dark world and so far I have not really encountered major issues. I edited the treasure chest mini-game room and tuned it into sahasrahla's house, but altered. I notice the game has item shops that are not really worth using because finding bombs is easy, getting a red potion is cheaper at the potion shop and hearts are easy to find.

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Re: adding new white dot exits

Post by SunGodPortal on Mon 11 Jan 2016 - 16:09

Don't try to connect houses to other places, the game's engine doesn't work like that.

I see no reason why this wouldn't work. In Bruce Campbell vs Ganon there is a house outside Hyrule Castle that leads to the mountain. I don't recall if it comes out from a cave or another house.

I notice the game has item shops that are not really worth using because finding bombs is easy, getting a red potion is cheaper at the potion shop and hearts are easy to find.

I too wondered what use they were. The only one worth going to is the one with a shield in case yours gets stolen.
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Re: adding new white dot exits

Post by SePH on Mon 11 Jan 2016 - 17:09

As far as I know, Puzzledude is right in saying you cant connect rooms above 255 to rooms 0-254.

Sure you can add a hole in a house that leads to a cave but when you exit, you'll exit as if you still were in the house.

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Re: adding new white dot exits

Post by Puzzledude on Mon 11 Jan 2016 - 17:15

Don't try to connect houses to other places, the game's engine doesn't work like that.

I see no reason why this wouldn't work. In Bruce Campbell vs Ganon there is a house outside Hyrule Castle that leads to the mountain. I don't recall if it comes out from a cave or another house.
It doesn't work if the house entered is indeed a room above 255 and has an entrance/exit yellow dot entrance type. You can put a connection cave to 2 houses (drawing only).

There is a difference between a drawing of the house and the entrance type. Usually a house has a yellow-only-entrance/exit and a room above 255. Such a combo can not be a connection cave, since you can never exit else where. Your entrance is your exit.

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Re: adding new white dot exits

Post by SunGodPortal on Mon 11 Jan 2016 - 17:29

FYI, Wiz: In BCvsG an extra connection between the mountain and the rest of the overworld was made using 1E (room 255) and 1F (room 239). There's plenty of caves in the latter part of rooms 0-255 so it is entirely possible to do this if done a certain way. I guess all that really matters is whether you have two yellow and white dots to spare and that you find a way to connect them in-dungeon via rooms below 256.

Note: Don't forget that you can edit which rooms the dots are linked to. Also, the useless "Chris Houlihan room" would be a good exit dot (0003? at Link's house) to repurpose if you need one of those.
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Re: adding new white dot exits

Post by wizzrobemaster on Mon 11 Jan 2016 - 18:34

I finally made my open world map. now I need to add obstacles in the tunnel to death mountain. the only issue I found is that the floor levels are incorrectly labeled but that is a minor issue.

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Re: adding new white dot exits

Post by SePH on Tue 12 Jan 2016 - 0:47

SunGodPortal wrote:FYI, Wiz: In BCvsG an extra connection between the mountain and the rest of the overworld was made using 1E (room 255) and 1F (room 239). There's plenty of caves in the latter part of rooms 0-255 so it is entirely possible to do this if done a certain way. I guess all that really matters is whether you have two yellow and white dots to spare and that you find a way to connect them in-dungeon via rooms below 256.
Sure a connection made within' rooms 0-255 will work (so a connection between rooms 256-295), but try editing a house properties located in the rooms 256 and above so that it warps to a room below 256, it simply won't work because HM won't save the values properly! It'll instead save whack values.



^^Here I just entered room 475! Razz

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Re: adding new white dot exits

Post by SunGodPortal on Tue 12 Jan 2016 - 0:50

^^Here I just entered room 475! Razz

LOL
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Re: adding new white dot exits

Post by wizzrobemaster on Tue 12 Jan 2016 - 0:53

when I edited any floor above 255, I changed the layout. right now I am working on a cave of trials for death mountain without the titan's mitt.

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Re: adding new white dot exits

Post by SunGodPortal on Tue 12 Jan 2016 - 1:53

Be really careful about what you do with rooms 256 and up. Been a while since I bugged a ROM with those rooms but I remember it being pretty easy.
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