New playthroughs & testing

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Re: New playthroughs & testing

Post by Erockbrox on Wed 12 Jul 2017 - 0:07

This video shows that the current fix for the cursed room does not work.

Use this design for the cursed room. I originally designed the room. It's my room. It's my bug. It's my fix. Thank you.

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Also don't delete this post.
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Re: New playthroughs & testing

Post by Erockbrox on Wed 12 Jul 2017 - 0:18

On the latest version of the game. i came to this chest and it was already opened. I honestly dont think i opened it. might want to check it.

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Re: New playthroughs & testing

Post by Erockbrox on Wed 12 Jul 2017 - 1:20

i love how the aliens turned out during the boss rush. First their blue then black then when they explode they do like a rainbow color explosion that looks amazing!!!!
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Re: New playthroughs & testing

Post by Erockbrox on Wed 12 Jul 2017 - 1:27

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Good game design means that a player is having fun.
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Re: New playthroughs & testing

Post by Conn on Wed 12 Jul 2017 - 7:07

I pm:ed superskuj to playtest. I do not dare to ask Erock as he surely finds dozends further bugs Razz (though he really should be happy now that I included all his wishes).
- added Erock's last stuff. Erock, if you bring up more, I'll ignore it.
I will only fix bugs from now on.
Puzz, this makes no sense, Erock is expert in repressing complains about him. His obsession affected gamemakr, SePH and from time to time also me.  Erock will just ignore what you said and keeps on... and on... and on.

Sad

Puzz, the video Erock posted... any solution to his issue? that's maybe the only thing I am willing to fix. Would a peg switch in the start room help without destroying anything?


Last edited by Conn on Wed 12 Jul 2017 - 7:27; edited 1 time in total
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Re: New playthroughs & testing

Post by Puzzledude on Wed 12 Jul 2017 - 7:24

Erock wrote: This video shows that the current fix for the cursed room does not work.
Ok, I'll tell you in a civilized way, (that it does work):

You Can enter the cursed room normally, since the pegs you had up in your video are down by default when you enter the dungeon. So obviously you hit a peg switch to get them up. You thus hit the same peg switch to get them down: it's the first peg switch you hit and it is in the room with the shutter door, which you passed by like 4 times in the video.

Push the block on the switch to open the shutter door and hit the peg switch, which is in the upper room to bring the pegs down again.

The situation in your video is not a problem at all, since the same type of pegs were in the cursed room in the first horizontal, and thus the situation/strategy of solving is the same as it was before the fix.

But indeed now the wall-bubbles are hurting you more, this is why I removed all 4 torches in my fix to be able to hide in the corners.
Noping some bubbles out or moving the torches so the corners have more room is a matter of seconds.


Erock wrote: Use this design for the cursed room. I originally designed the room. It's my room. It's my bug. It's my fix. Thank you.
I think I told you like 10 times: Do what you want with the game. Why are you complaining here and telling others what to do. Why were you telling SePH what to do, and then Conn and so on. Why are you showing your new design of the cursed room and telling us to edit it? Go for it. Change the cursed room to that new design of yours. What's stopping you?

Found a bug? False design (or at least you think it is a false design when it is really not)? You don't like any of the rooms in the game? You want new gfx in the game? ...
Then change it to your desire - in v1.3. But let Conn finish the v1.22. Do note: the 1.3 will overwrite the 1.22.

Erock wrote: Delete this spike for the love of god.
Deja vu. Did you know I can nop out this spike in like 3 seconds. Why would post an entire (non displaying) image and write on the image what you can do youself in 3 seconds. So: For the love of god, remove this spike yourself, it takes 3 seconds.


PS
If I was admin, you would stay banned, since basically you are doing the very same thing with Conn now, than what you did with SePH before.


Last edited by Puzzledude on Wed 12 Jul 2017 - 7:39; edited 3 times in total
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Re: New playthroughs & testing

Post by Puzzledude on Wed 12 Jul 2017 - 7:31

Conn wrote: Puzz, the video Erock posted... any solution to his issue?
Sure. Just hit the very first peg switch you have hit, by going through the shutter door. The switch is just one room above.


Conn wrote: Would a peg switch in the start room help without destroying anything?
Yes, this would break the game/dungeon, since the peg switch need to be behind the locked door, which it is - by going through the shutter door.




Last edited by Puzzledude on Wed 12 Jul 2017 - 7:34; edited 1 time in total
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Re: New playthroughs & testing

Post by Conn on Wed 12 Jul 2017 - 7:33

Ok Erock, I checked and you can still reach this peg, which you already used to get the seed:
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Also you could leave the dungeon, if the way up is too long for you.
Puzz design is still awesome, bugfree and works!

Regarding your other stuff.
- blue robots in clocktower are only hitable by arrows, I tested.
- you opened that chest before for sure.
-
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Re: New playthroughs & testing

Post by Puzzledude on Wed 12 Jul 2017 - 7:47

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Thank god for this screen.
Yes, this is the first peg you must hit to go left in the first place. Obviously this is what you hit to reset the pegs again. This was the original strategy in all previous versions.

Puzz design is still awesome, bugfree and works!
Also do note: this dungeon was designed by SePH initially, but he then used some of the Erock's rooms, which all needed to be remade anyway.

This dungeon has gone through multiple debugs and should be fine/acceptable in the version 1.22, however some sprites might still need editing. But this is a simple sprite placement, hardly worth the edit.
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Re: New playthroughs & testing

Post by Conn on Wed 12 Jul 2017 - 8:00

I edited your post Puzz to avoid confusion. I didn't play the game much, so I mixed up that you indeed need the deku first. I deleted this "did you cheat phrase?") from my and your post to avoid confusion.

But indeed now the wall-bubbles are hurting you more, this is why I removed all 4 torches in my fix to be able to hide in the corners.
Noping some bubbles out or moving the torches so the corners have more room is a matter of seconds.  
Ah, yes, I remember, now it makes sense. Well it's too late now, Conker just needs to be agile to avoid them Very Happy

Deja vu. Did you know I can nop out this spike in like 3 seconds. Why would post an entire (non displaying) image and write on the image what you can do youself in 3 seconds. So: For the love of god, remove this spike yourself, it takes 3 seconds.
I will not delete them, as the game also needs to be challenging. You hit the spike? Try again, aim better!

PS
If I was admin, you would stay banned, since basically you are doing the very same thing with Conn now, than what you did with SePH before.
Yes, Erock can be a pest, but in the end it is my fault if I let myself troubling me.

So, I try to say it in a way maybe Erock understands now:

THE GAME IS FINISHED. NONE OF YOUR "BUGS" CONVINCED ME TO MOVE ANOTHER FINGER ON REDESIGNING ANYTHING!


myself wrote:THE GAME IS FINISHED

- this is of course only true if no gamebreaking bug is found. I wait for Superskuj's playtest and that's it I guess.
Erock: you cannot be made happy, SePH failed, I fail. I addressed at least 95% of your inquiries, and you still demand anything and even panic with 5 posts. I am out. I never wanted to fix this game in the way I finally did, thanks to you. "Jill is not perfect, this room is not perfect, I do not want this spike, this is notgood, remove it..."
Why can't you be content with what I have done for you?! I never wanted to pixel Jill. I did. I never wanted a waterfall sprite. I did. I never wanted the new fox tail. I did. I never wanted the new barrier. I did... hammer, mushroom staff, aliens,, redesigning, ...... .... .... .. ... .. .. ..etc. I did. I wanted initially to work one week on my wishing well, now yours empty as well, and I spent 1-2 month already on it. You are still not happy. Why?
It's over Erock unless you find gamebreaking bug. Live with it.

And since I have serious concerns that you edit the game to the worse if you ever find out how to open it with HM (like that cursed room Puzz spent so much time on), I forbid anybody here to tell you how to open the rom in HM!
If you ever find out yourself, you are not allowed to publish an official version 1.3 without permission of either SePH, me or Puzz!


Last edited by Conn on Wed 12 Jul 2017 - 13:38; edited 2 times in total
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Re: New playthroughs & testing

Post by Puzzledude on Wed 12 Jul 2017 - 12:46

I deleted this "did you cheat phrase?"
Yes, by the way, when you beta test, you actually don't use cheats, otherwise it makes no sense.

I will not delete them, as the game also needs to be challenging. You hit the spike? Try again, aim better!
This was SePH's original idea. I personally don't see the difference between spike or no spike. You can hit the switch in all cases. So from the debugging point of view this is the same.

this is of course only true if no gamebreaking bug is found. I wait for Superskuj's playtest and that's it I guess.
Indeed. Like said I hope he will stream again, and from the practice you can easily see the problems (if any). When the rom is played out at least once, its time to publish it and close the work on it/no further edits, which might bring new bugs in.

and even panic with 5 posts
This number is actually 8. Reminds me of acmlm, where they don't allow double posts in a time frame of several hours.

If you ever find out yourself, you are not allowed to publish an official version 1.3 without permission of either SePH, me or Puzz!
I think this is for the best. He should just name it in a different way.

I forbid anybody here to tell you how to open the rom in HM!
He can just edit the rooms via hex directly, specially noping out sprites. But of course it is easier with HM.
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Re: New playthroughs & testing

Post by Trovsky on Wed 12 Jul 2017 - 13:14

Conn wrote:And since I have serious concerns that you edit the game to the worse if you ever find out how to open it with HM (like that cursed room Puzz spent so much time on), I forbid anybody here to tell you how to open the rom in HM!
If you ever find out yourself, you are not allowed to publish an official version 1.3 without permission of either SePH, me or Puzz!

If Erobrocks wants to release his own version, should we force him to name it "I sip my own piss"?

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Re: New playthroughs & testing

Post by Conn on Wed 12 Jul 2017 - 13:48

If Erobrocks wants to release his own version, should we force him to name it "I sip my own piss"?
Let's not be unfair. Erock's stuff like gfx helped in the end a lot improving the game and he also found some serious bugs (like that msu1 game crash).
I am sincerely grateful for that.

But there's a point when I'm driven nuts as well (like that 8 posts, bringing up stuff that are no bugs...and again the cursed room...  Confused ). So I am really concerned that he makes the game worse if he ever gets his hands on rendering it. Luckily my (admittedly -lame- copyright protection is good enough to prevent this for now Razz

Just 2 phrases Erock should think about:
Erock, Mon 10 Jul 2017 wrote:I don't even believe it.

This crazy strange obsession with me doing a complete remake of Zelda 3 is basically finally over.
Erock Yesterday at 12:53 wrote:
I don't think I have any more suggestions with this game.
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Re: New playthroughs & testing

Post by Puzzledude on Wed 12 Jul 2017 - 14:37

In the hopes of better general relations, here's the Erock's version just for show, not that it will actually make it into the release:

I even have the rom with this version, from which it was screenshoted, but the base was 1.12 or 1.2 (old) I think.

Took me 15 minutes. Also noped out (ie Useless sprite) both peg switches as well as that bouncing spike. So seriously, if anyone wants to edit the game and make his own version, go for it like I just did as reference.

I named the picture: cursed room nuked
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PS
If those 2 small openings on the right are spikes, then hookshoting through the bottom one is ok, since you can level yourself in perfect vertical using the bottom torch, but it might be impossible to hookshot through the upper one, since you can not level yourself - since you need to be pixel perfect in the vertical to be able to hookshot through - but I'm sure this is what a play-test will find in any way.
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Re: New playthroughs & testing

Post by Puzzledude on Wed 12 Jul 2017 - 14:46

I wrote: If those 2 small openings on the right are spikes, then hookshoting through the bottom one is ok, since you can level yourself in perfect vertical using the bottom torch, but it might be impossible to hookshot through the upper one, since you can not level yourself - since you need to be pixel perfect in the vertical to be able to hookshot through - but I'm sure this is what a play-test will find in any way.
Didn't see the update. It's all ok:
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Re: New playthroughs & testing

Post by Conn on Wed 12 Jul 2017 - 15:56

I used the torches in the middle row for the old 02 blocks to hookshot down. Now that they are to 27 these are not needed. But they are decorative.

I'm all fine with my new release until now, I'll pm Superskuj when he can do a playtest and also ask for a video.
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Re: New playthroughs & testing

Post by Conn on Fri 14 Jul 2017 - 10:00

dynamic life energy code for Ganon:

Code:
06/b829: b9 73 b1 9d 50 0e -> 22 xx yy zz ea ea (JSL and 2 nop)

zz/yyxx
B9 73 B1    LDA $B173,y ; repeat native code
9D 50 0E    STA $0E50,x ; repeat native code
C0 D6       CPY #$D6          ; is it Ganon?
F0 01       BEQ $01    
6b          RTL                     ;No
E0 00       CPX #$00         ; maybe?      
F0 01       BEQ $01    
6b          RTL                     ;No
AF 2E F3 7E LDA $7EF32E ; Yes: easy or hard mode?
F0 02       BEQ $02    
A2 01       LDX #$01                ; easy mode? set X to 01
AF 59 F3 7E LDA $7EF359    ; load sword level
E0 01       CPX #$01                ; hard mode?
F0 01       BEQ $01    
0A          ASL A                   ;yes: double sword level
18          CLC                    
6F 5B F3 7E ADC $7EF35B ; add mail level
18          CLC                    
69 01       ADC #$01                ; add 01 (mail starts at 00, 02 is highest
0A          ASL A                         ; x2
0A          ASL A                       ; x4
0A          ASL A                      ; x8
E0 01       CPX #$01                ; hard mode?
F0 05       BEQ $05    
18          CLC                    
69 A7       ADC #$A7                ; yes, hard mode, add a7
80 03       BRA $03    [$D335]      
18          CLC                        ; no, easy mode, add a0
69 A0       ADC #$A0                
A2 00       LDX #$00        ; restore x-value        
9D 50 0E    STA $0E50,x ; set new Ganon life energy
6b          RTl    
The calculation is following.
We take the sword level (and double it in hard mode), then add the mail (add 01 because it starts with 00, 02 is highest). Then we multiply the outcome with x8. Then we again add a7 in hard mode or a0 in easy mode.

FAQ:
- how does Ganon work?
Ganon gets an initial life energy of FF. You need to get that down to 00 to defeat him.
Phase 1: FF-A0: decrease of live energy in dependence of sword level (l1: -1, l2: -2, l3: -4, l4: -8)
Phase 2: A0-60: jumping, NOT dependent of sword level, each hit takes -10 (4 hits required)
Phase 3: 60-18: warps like crazy, NOT dependent of sword level, each hit takes -A (7 hits required)
Phase 4: 18-00: silver arrow (recovers after sword hit to 18 if not silver arrow, one arrow required)

- Why do you un-retire?
Well, SePH made a shortcut possible. But Ganon could only be beaten with L3 or L4 sword from Triforce shrine (or L2 spin IF people know that). So I made Ganon also vulnerable to L1 and L2 sword.

- ...yes, but why this dynamic Life Energy?
If you face him with a l1 sword you needed ff-a0=5f == 95 hits to bring him to stage 2. With maybe no armor, little life energy and no byrna. People will fail! Also with L2 sword after obtaining all 9 rings he was hard as only spin attacks could harm him.

- how does your algorithm work and why is it so complex?
To equalize chances, every sword level increases life energy as well as your armor. Then I also took hard/easy level into account.
Here are some examples:
Right after D7:
L1 sword, no mail, easy: (1(l1sword)+1(no mail))*8 =10 (hex)==16(dec). With L1 sword you need 16/1 hits  to Stage2.
L1 sword, no mail, hard: (1(l1sword)*2(hard)+1(no mail))*8)+7(hard) =1F (hex)==31(dec). With L1 sword you need 31/1 hits  to Stage2.

All rings, no triforce shrine, underverse:
L2 sword, L2 mail, easy: (2(l2sword)+3(l2 mail))*8) =28 (hex)==40(dec). With L2 sword you need 40/2=20 hits  to Stage2.
L2 sword, L2 mail, hard: (2(l2sword)*2(hard)+3(l2 mail))*8)+7 =3f (hex)==63(dec). With L2 sword you need 63/2=32 hits  to Stage2.

L3 sword, L2 mail, easy: (3+3)*8=30==48. 48/4 = 12 hits
L3 sword, L2 mail, hard: (3*2+3)*8+7 = 4f == 79. 79/4 = 20 hits

L4 sword, L2 mail, easy: (4+3)*8=38==56. 56/8 = 7 hits
L4 sword, L2 mail, hard: (4*2+3)*8+7 = 5f ==  95/8 = 12 hits (5f+A0=FF, max life energy Ganon can have).

This is how I wanted it, a sort of parabel. With no mail you need 16 hits, then it goes up and then down again (since the l4 sword e.g., needs an advantage (less hits) over the L3 sword.


Last edited by Conn on Fri 14 Jul 2017 - 12:52; edited 2 times in total
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Re: New playthroughs & testing

Post by Conn on Fri 14 Jul 2017 - 10:05

So I called the new version 1.2.3
Ganon has above dynamic life energy to give the player the chance to beat him also directly after D7 with the shortcut. Now 16 instead of 95 hits are needed!

Also.... errrr... Archery
we played the whole time in slowrom as fastrom was disabled by the intro screen. And I wondered the whole time why Ganon has so massive slowdown Confused

Furthermore, the room left to the cursed room in space is made more fair, thanks to Puzz!

Download the new patch:
Hack v1.2.3 Download: (repatched: July, 14th 2017)
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Re: New playthroughs & testing

Post by Puzzledude on Fri 14 Jul 2017 - 12:48

Regarding that room, it was a simple fix for the player to be "safe" at the corners. So at least you also addresed this issue.

I hope this v1.23 is final. Basically what it needs is one full play-through, when you check for (actual) bugs only (if any).
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Re: New playthroughs & testing

Post by Conn on Fri 14 Jul 2017 - 12:54

pm, superskuj wrote:There's a couple people who have said they'll do a playthrough but I'm not sure what their schedules are like so I don't have an ETA for that. If they take too long I'll just do it myself though.

Very Happy
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Re: New playthroughs & testing

Post by Conn on Thu 20 Jul 2017 - 15:58

It's actually not worth mentioning, but I updated the patch again (says now:repatched 19th July). The reason is me being nitpicky again: when you spoke to toad, it still had the monologue "guard:...", now it says "toad:..." I found this important to change due to the fairy monologue.

Anyways, superskuj promised to start a playtest these days, then we know whether this is the final version or bugfixes still are required.
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Re: New playthroughs & testing

Post by Conn on Sun 23 Jul 2017 - 18:34

Superskuj did it: Very Happy
Alright after playing through it again (not 100%, but all dungeons completed) I didn't notice any bugs or anything I think needs to be fixed.

The first few minutes are lost from that video because my computer crashed but it's only about 5 minutes and it's on a separate video if you need to see it.

Here's the link: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I already updated the files at romhacking (submission queue, should be available tomorrow Smile )
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Re: New playthroughs & testing

Post by SePH on Sun 23 Jul 2017 - 18:42

That's one small step from Conn, one giant leap for mankind! Blue1

Thanks to skuj for sacrificing himself once more and special thanks to Erockbrox and Puzzledude for their support! Smile

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Re: New playthroughs & testing

Post by Puzzledude on Sun 23 Jul 2017 - 18:50

Nice to see you post again. Even if you disappear afterwards again. Yes, I hope skuj has enough power to make a final testing (again). And in this topic I can actually see Trovsky's posts? He is again listed a member and with 314 posts, yet the temp secondary account "guts" is gone. Suspect
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Re: New playthroughs & testing

Post by SePH on Sun 23 Jul 2017 - 18:57

Long story short, the message board went back in time, after mysterious circumstances.

Precious data that was once gone into oblivion was moved into a safeplace for the time being, while we clear things out.

In other words, users and messages that were deleted prior to a week ago were all fully restored by the magic that is...the forum backup functions! ;-)

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