Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

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Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

Post by Erockbrox on Wed 15 Nov 2017 - 1:31

This is the Erock Version Conker 1.2.7 thread.

In this thread I will be posting my changes to the Conker game. These changes are in good spirit to anyone playing the game as well as the team behind the game.

Everyone here knows that I've put my heart and soul into this game. Well, I need to polish some remaining things up.

To do list:

- Change those 2 tiny pixels of gray when Conker falls. It's supposed to be transparent pixels. fixed Very Happy
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Re: Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

Post by Erockbrox on Wed 15 Nov 2017 - 4:18

Okay well I fixed my very first thing on my "to do" list today. Also I think I finally became a "real zelda" hacker in the process too.

I learned how to open the rom in HM then learned how to change the internal name then learned zcompress all in one sitting.

Please keep in mind that I've never known or used these programs successfully ever. So I seriously want someone to bake me a cake or something.

Okay, so I first set out to tackle the odd pixels showing up when conker falls. It turns out that these 3 pixels in one particular frame were actually part of conkers foot from the previous frame.

So I moved the one 16x16 image in yychr over 1 pixel and moved that 3 pixel group back to the correct image. Now when conker falls down, this strange anomaly doesn't show up and now the mystery is solved.  



Normally this 3 pixel group is not easily noticeable when conker is falling into a black pit, however when he falls off of the clouds in the garden of Eden area (hammer dungeon) it is very noticeable.
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Re: Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

Post by Erockbrox on Wed 15 Nov 2017 - 19:48

I'm getting a pixel artist to redraw this floor tile in the phony substation.

Most of the graphics in CHRT are okay, but this one in particular graphic has always bugged me. Since it's used so much in this dungeon an improved version would have a big impact. I'm going to tell the artist to try and make the floor tile match the aesthetic of the rest of the dungeon.

I can't wait to see this improvement. This is the image I'm sending the guy. lol

Also note that I'm only doing this for this one tile, not for the whole game.



Looks like I'm actually fulfilling my own suggestions at this point. Very Happy
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Re: Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

Post by Erockbrox on Thu 16 Nov 2017 - 0:26

General question. If there is a room where if you kill all enemies then the door opens. How do you make it so that you don't have to kill all enemies for the door to open. Do I just use a different door?

I thought kill all enemies was a special option in HM that you select for a door to open.

[edit]

also looks like im getting those HM errors.... the game reverts back to the size of 1029 kb sometimes when i save????
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Re: Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

Post by Erockbrox on Thu 16 Nov 2017 - 3:03

Also Conn, I don't know if that coke fountain really looks like a fountain or not. I might see if I can improve on the graphics.

Why not have like a glass or vending machine or something. I was even thinking of a person who said the following

Me Chinese, me play joke. Me put pee-pee in your Coke.

It seems to fit with your theme.
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Re: Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

Post by Conn on Thu 16 Nov 2017 - 5:24

I'll not change the monologues again, as some are in the moved area (what is a pain to change), like the "*Psst.. I'm a Koka Kola fountain...".
Without some deeper asm knowledge (which you do not have) you can only change monologues 200-400 in HM.
https://www.zeldix.net/t1340-conker-asm-files-final

Leave the fountain  as fountain! Confused
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Re: Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

Post by Puzzledude on Thu 16 Nov 2017 - 10:58

General question. If there is a room where if you kill all enemies then the door opens. How do you make it so that you don't have to kill all enemies for the door to open. Do I just use a different door?
I thought kill all enemies was a special option in HM that you select for a door to open.
Rookie. No you don't have to use another door. You need to change the tag, ie effect of the room, which is a part of the room-header properties. Current "effect" should be "kill enemy to open" or "clear room to open". You need to choose another effect/property. If you don't want this effect, you should change the effect to "nothing" and then change the existing door to "type-0". If you want a shutter door, you need to choose the effect, otherwise it will stay permanently closed.

also looks like im getting those HM errors.... the game reverts back to the size of 1029 kb sometimes when i save????
Welcome to the club. This happens to beginners as well, since you can not add indoor data. If you add to much elements, to the point where you need more hex-space, HM will expand the code written just beyond 1MB, and thus auto-erase all code above this address. I suggest you use existing elements of indoor rooms and change or replace them, and don't add new ones, otherwise you might get these bugs and other bugs in general (specially pointer calculation bugs, which then result in "garbage-room" bug).

Of course the bug can still be debugged.
Example debug:
Rom-1 is: 102500 in hex + code. Rom-2 is: 102900 + erased (HM needed 400 more dungeon hex space).

Thus Rom-2 is 102900 in hex.
Solution is: manually expand Rom-2 from 102900 to 400000 in hex. Copy paste missing code from Rom-1 to Rom-2. The hex block to be pasted is 102901-400000.

This debug thus requires for you to have a backup, or any rom which still had 4MB, prior to the HM's faulty reduction to 1MB.


Why not have like a glass or vending machine or something. I was even thinking of a person who said the following
Changing monologues in this game is actually not recommended to do, since the monologue code in Conker is specific and complex (some code was repointed).


Last edited by Puzzledude on Thu 16 Nov 2017 - 12:09; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

Post by Conn on Thu 16 Nov 2017 - 11:36

Seems like erock gets eventually an idea, what his 100s requests and ideas meant as work for us developers, and why this drove us nuts Spin
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Re: Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

Post by Puzzledude on Thu 16 Nov 2017 - 12:58

Seems like erock gets eventually an idea, what his 100s requests and ideas meant as work for us developers
Yes. It's finally time for HIM to fix that pixel in the cloud of the wall of the Mario castle-overworld, he was talking about some time ago.




Here we see, why this happened. One pixel was drawn into the new square. So this seems like a mistake, but ...




... here we see that SePH needed this pixel to be darker because of the lower wall pattern. However this lower part would still look acceptable with the pixel being light.

Thus globally the pixel should be changed, if you want to make this perfect or at least better looking. But from the upper pictures you can clearly see what the deal is behind this minor lapsus and why it happened.

To make things absolutely flawless here, you would actually need another square of space in the GFX tileset, one for the square with the dark pixel (to be at the lower wall pattern, close to the dark bushes) and the square with the pixel fixed for the general wall-pattern. Of course you don't have another 8x8 free space in this tile-set ...

So obviously the best solution here is to make that pixel lighter (of the same colour as the right part), which takes like a second, if you have GFX decompressed and the tile set found in zcompress.
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Re: Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

Post by Erockbrox on Fri 17 Nov 2017 - 0:14

What I can't believe is that all I'm trying to do is fine polish this game up in my vision, but I can already see that editing this game is rough.

In fact this is probably why there are only a rare handful of people here to seriously edit this game.

Smwcentral has a user base in the hundreds and possibly thousands of hackers. Zeldix has what... just a handful.

This is also why I never really was able to do a Zelda 3 hack all on my own. But I was able to manage a smw hack.

Okay, so here is my hacking progress. I also want it to be very clear that I am not trying to any malicious edits to the game. I am only trying to improve upon the game so that people enjoy it more.

Also now that I see it and am doing it, a Erock version was inevitable. As even if I offered 1,000 more suggestions, it has to be me to put my own touch on the game.

If only I was able to make edits while the game was being made, we probably could have not have had all of those suggestions from me.

Here are some screen shots of the originals and my versions.

Original level





Erock version



As you can see in my Erock version, I made one of the cloud platforms bigger. By doing this the player can more easily navigate on the clouds. I also added back in the fireblade that was removed. Because of the extra space on the cloud the fireblade isn't that bad anymore because you can now dodge it better.
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Re: Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

Post by Erockbrox on Fri 17 Nov 2017 - 0:20

Here is another cloud level.

Original





Erock Version



All I did right here is just make the clouds more navigable. Originally you couldn't go counter clock wise around on these clouds, but now you can go both ways.
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Re: Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

Post by Erockbrox on Fri 17 Nov 2017 - 0:23

It is interesting to see how an idea can evolve over time though different people.

Original Puzz




Seph Version




Erock version



I kept the same original idea intact, but just cleaned it up a little bit. Now its more fun to play.
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Re: Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

Post by Puzzledude on Fri 17 Nov 2017 - 7:15

Well, finally you do your own edits for your version. As far as I'm concern you can make this a 1.27. Like said, this game is pretty much an open-source (SePH's wish) so anyone can edit it further. Time for you to nuke that "cursed room" in the Jedi dungeon, if this is still what you prefer. Of course from these edits I can see you are making the rooms easier.

I think SePH was out of the project since v1.1, I was pretty much out of the project since v1.12. Conn was on it untill v1.25, with an additional fix for v1.26. It's your project now (and your burden). But globaly this is still SePH's game, obviously.
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Re: Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

Post by Erockbrox on Fri 17 Nov 2017 - 16:10

Cursed room looks like this. You can thank me later.

The reason for this change is due to many reasons.

1) The pegswitch in this room can mess up the dungeon.

2) Conker's throw isn't far enough with deku seed, this design was based upon original Link's throw distance, not Conkers.

3) Using goldstar in conjunction with deku seed in these spaces is hard since goldstar disables deku seed. I originally designed this so that you have to kick the red brick and use hookshot at the same time. This is no longer possible if the player gets the goldstar.



Time for you to nuke that "cursed room" in the Jedi dungeon

When you have a pair of pants with too many holes in them, what do you do?

You throw them away and get a new pair of pants.

Also how do I add messages tiles with dialogue to rooms, like the message tiles in dungeons?
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Re: Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

Post by Puzzledude on Fri 17 Nov 2017 - 17:19

When you have a pair of pants with too many holes in them, what do you do? You throw them away and get a new pair of pants.
You do realize that the Jedi dungeon was finished many times over by multiple players. I don't get it, how this clasifies as "many holes in the pants", when the entire dungeon with this room was finally debugged. From an objective point of view there is no real reason to completely change this room. But like said, whatever.

Also how do I add messages tiles with dialogue to rooms, like the message tiles in dungeons?
Like any other dungeon object. The message stone is one of the objects. Then in the room-header properties you choose which monologue the game should load in this room, by giving the monologue number.

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Re: Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

Post by Erockbrox on Fri 17 Nov 2017 - 20:38

A short video about how simple design can make a big difference.

The right/left/down evil fish sprite is special since it constantly spawn sprites. Since they are spawning constantly, you need to make the design of the rooms in such a way as to also de-spawn them as well.

When this sprite hits a wall it forks in other directions. By adding in a few blocks in this room I can make the fish de-spawn by diverting them off screen thus eliminating the slow down problem that was present.

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Re: Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

Post by Erockbrox on Fri 17 Nov 2017 - 23:04

Original design




New Erock Version

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Re: Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

Post by Erockbrox on Sat 18 Nov 2017 - 16:45

Okay ran into a problem and I need help.

It's those darn pushable blocks. I have a block in one room that needs to be slightly moved over to another location in the same room.

If I use Hyrule Magic and just drag and drop the block over to the new location it doesn't show up in the new location when I run the game.

This is something that I never figured out when using Hyrule Magic all these years.

Need instruction on how to fix this. Do I use a hex editor or something?
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Re: Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

Post by Erockbrox on Sun 19 Nov 2017 - 0:02

Okay so progress is coming along very nicely for the most part.

I think this was because I already knew all of the changes that I wanted to make (mostly) before I even started.

So lets begin!

Original design for garden of eden



The problem that I saw here was that when I first played the game I never saw the two small cloud platforms near the bottom of the level which have the other lanterns on them.

And then one of the lanterns needs the firerod to activate. But, sometimes people do this dungeon out of order and so they don't have the firerod when seeing this.


New Erock version



In the Erock version I made it so that you can easily access the other lower cloud platforms, expanding the playing field in the process.


Last edited by Erockbrox on Sun 19 Nov 2017 - 0:45; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

Post by Erockbrox on Sun 19 Nov 2017 - 0:12

Next up is the gear dungeon. There was only one big change that I wanted to make.

Here was the original version.



The problem with this very original version is that the designer wanted to player to hookshot over the spikes onto the gears (which really had pegswitch tiles hidden behind them) to grab onto to make it over the floor nails.

I didn't like the idea of hookshotting onto the gears because if you can hookshot to one gear then you should be able to hookshot to any gear, but we all know that the hookshot interaction to the gear graphic was a fake out due to the poorly hidden pegswitch tiles behind them. Since gear graphics are on layer 2 after all.

The problem arises here because instead of using the hookshot to avoid damage, the player can just force their way to the top door by willingly taking damage on purpose. So the design was later changed to this:

Other version



This version is an improvement however, it is a little clunky in its design because the player cannot do the whole thing with the hookshot alone. Usually they have to flip flop between the feather and hookshot back and forth while doing this. So I still had problems with it.

Now, this is the new Erock version. It does everything that it was originally supposed to do only its more streamlined and to the point. No more flipping back in your inventory between the feather and hookshot to make it through.

Erock version



Last edited by Erockbrox on Sun 19 Nov 2017 - 1:30; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

Post by Erockbrox on Sun 19 Nov 2017 - 0:26

Still next is a room in the parallel tower.

There were a few rooms which had hidden invisible platforms. Conn then made it so that the flute or harp would illuminate these tiles so that the player can see them.

There was one room where Conn said if I remember

I'm making this room more challenging because now the player has the harp and can see the hidden tiles.

I now have restored this to Seph's original design.



This was the design where there was one big invisible square in the middle.

The reason why this decision was made was because:

1) Not every person who plays this game knows about the secret at the 1st dungeon to get the harp early. We know where it is, but not everyone gets this item in dungeon 1 when they play the game for the 1st time.

2) If they don't get the harp at the start then Conn's harder design becomes extremely hard because they can't see the hidden tiles. Also not everyone makes it to the hidden desert dungeon to get the gold harp either. Beating the game doesn't require this.

3) Even if the player does get the harp at the start, they might accidentally skip over the message that they are supposed to read and miss the information about the harp lighting up the tiles. Also since the parallel tower dungeon is so far away from the first dungeon where they are supposed to read the message the player might have forgotten by then to remember that the harp has this special ability.


Last edited by Erockbrox on Sun 19 Nov 2017 - 1:08; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

Post by Erockbrox on Sun 19 Nov 2017 - 0:34

For the graphics. There are just a handful of new graphics that I want to add. Here they are:

- New phony substation floor tile graphic

- In gear dungeon the big cannon ball doesn't match that of the smaller cannon ball. In fact the big cannon ball is actually hollow in the center. The big cannon ball will be drawn to match that of the smaller cannon ball.

- When gannon in bat form breaks through the floor we got a new graphic for his final bat pose, but there are a few tiles of animation which still use the original gannon bat graphics. These will be changed to match that of the style of art of the crash through the floor pose.

- I might have my pixel guy see if the coke fountain can be improved upon.
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Re: Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

Post by Erockbrox on Sun 19 Nov 2017 - 0:40

Also need help on knowing how to move the pushable block around since if changes are made in hyrule magic they don't show up when actually playing the game.

I have no idea how to work with these things and need instructions.


Also need to know how the floor spike nails animation tiles work. Are these two separate graphics tiles? I have a slightly better floor nail graphic that I want to use, but its a static graphic. I will need to know how to change this floor nails graphic.
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Re: Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

Post by Conn on Sun 19 Nov 2017 - 6:23

hmm, you change much stuff I would not much agree (jedi temple nuke, harp platforms - they are extra hard, because it is optional, reward is only a Heart Container piece, etc.).
When I made my versions, I tried to be minimal invasive to SePH's original design, I only re-arranged stuff which did not matter much or bugged.

But it's completely your project. Only thing I insist is to leave it as fork project and ~never~ release it as official 1.2.7 but rather Conker Erock version or whatever Wink

As for the stuff you need help on, I cannot help, since I have only rudimentary knowledge in HM. Also I unfortunately currently have only little freetime, so if you need asm help on some edges, I do not know whether I have the time to help (I guess not).
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Re: Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

Post by Puzzledude on Sun 19 Nov 2017 - 7:25

Okay ran into a problem and I need help.

It's those darn pushable blocks. I have a block in one room that needs to be slightly moved over to another location in the same room.

If I use Hyrule Magic and just drag and drop the block over to the new location it doesn't show up in the new location when I run the game.

This is something that I never figured out when using Hyrule Magic all these years.

Need instruction on how to fix this. Do I use a hex editor or something?
Also need help on knowing how to move the pushable block around since if changes are made in hyrule magic they don't show up when actually playing the game.

I have no idea how to work with these things and need instructions.
When you enter any indoors all pushable blocks in the game are put into RAM. No idea why Nintendo went for this, but it actually makes sense if you consider the block needs to respawn on the actual position after being moved (if you leave the room). The block will also spawn in the new room if pushed down the hole.

Thus all you need to do when you move the pushable block in HM is save, and then load the game - and leave the dungeon you are currently in. Enter the dungeon again. Then the block will be on its new position.

Since when you load a save state, you also load the RAM, which had the block on old position, regardless the ROM has it in the new position.

Here the table:
-dungeon objects (reload on HM room transit)
-pushable block and indoor torches (reload after dungeon entrance transit)
-monologues (reload after srm reload - ie game-file load)

Do I use a hex editor or something?
This one is somewhat funny.

This is something that I never figured out when using Hyrule Magic all these years.
Irronically it's the save state issue (ie the false/correct reload after data edit).
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