Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

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Re: Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

Post by Puzzledude on Sun 19 Nov 2017 - 7:50

Also need to know how the floor spike nails animation tiles work. Are these two separate graphics tiles? I have a slightly better floor nail graphic that I want to use, but its a static graphic. I will need to know how to change this floor nails graphic.
As any other gfx. In the bin file (ie decompressed gfx) which you open with YYchr, there is the primary gfx tile set. This one contains static gfx. Do note: even moveable objects have a static gfx, which is their default position.

But at the end of the first half of the gfx in the bin file, you have non-static gfx frames, which get loaded onto static ones if the object is movable.

Here you have everything: always in the groups of three. 3 frames for: burning torch, glitterng ice, jumping flowers, water, waves, water floating around water-rocks, moving mole to be hammered etc etc and yes, also all 3 frames for the moving spikes.

If you need new gfx for spikes, you need to draw 3 frames of spikes anew. Then copy paste or draw them onto these 3 frames. Additionally you need to copy paste the default (ie 1st) frame into static gfx set. The 3 frames need to be drawn so, that if you jump from 1 to 2 and from 2 to 3 and from 3 to 1, it gives the illusion of movement you want to have (usually spikes are going up and down).

Look at the hammering mole gfx to learn and see how it is made, since this mole is right next to spikes, in static and non-static gfx sets.
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Re: Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

Post by Erockbrox on Sun 19 Nov 2017 - 15:28

So you are telling me that the whole pushable block not in the right location thing.... was a savestate issue all this time???

This means that when I was editing zelda 3 all these years I was always making edits with HM and then immediately using save state loads to check the area for changes.

Never once did I actually step out of the dungeon to reload the actual data? Seriously??

I guess because the other data was loading in correct I assumed that all the data loaded this way. So basically all this time I was thinking that moving blocks around in the game required some special hacker voodoo when really the situation was much simpler than I ever imagined.

Anyways, on a side note, I keep on getting a graphics glitch. This isn't the first time I've experienced this glitch actually.

I played up until parallel tower in 1st save slot, then quit and started a new game slot, game slot 2. When you first see the uncle in game slot 2 he looks glitched.

I believe this is due to the uncle having both sword and shield, but in the game these graphics are moved or not loaded or its the wrong tile set or something so they looked glitched.

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Re: Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

Post by Erockbrox on Sun 19 Nov 2017 - 16:31

Here is my final design for the down evil sprite room.



I do not understand why it seems as if nobody except for me actually takes these things into consideration.

These 4 simple, but strategically placed blocks fix everything.

While the slow down problem only happens if the player stays in this room for a while, it still is a problem. And you never know when someone might just come and hang out in this one room for while.

For example, sometimes when I play games I just want to listen to the music for a while and chill out. Now it is possible to do this in this room.

But I guess I can say that I didn't understand why puzz was so interested in making sure warp tiles were on their correct x,y positions either. Do warp tiles not work if they are incorrectly placed? Because back in the old conker version, they seemed worked just fine.

I think the main point here is that we each have are own talents regarding this game. So we should at least be aware of this and try and see where each and every one of us is coming from.
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Re: Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

Post by Conn on Sun 19 Nov 2017 - 18:43

I played up until parallel tower in 1st save slot, then quit and started a new game slot, game slot 2. When you first see the uncle in game slot 2 he looks glitched.

Yeah, that is one of these bugs, alike Smash reported:

- One of the eye statues refused to open the secret passage after shooting a pebble in it 30 times or so. Had to reset the game to fix it. Don't remember the exact location, but I do remember it was blocking a dead-end containing a small key and the GPS.
- Sometimes paths in the desert just don't work, not sure why. Going back to the previous area wasn't enough to workaround the issue, but going all the way back to Peach's Castle appeared to do the trick.

They appear scarce and random, I cannot reproduce, and thus am not able to fix. In the end, they are not gamebreaking, maybe annoying. So, it's likely that they get never fixed, we must live with that Sad
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Re: Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

Post by Puzzledude on Sun 19 Nov 2017 - 19:12

So you are telling me that the whole pushable block not in the right location thing.... was a savestate issue all this time???
Yes.

This means that when I was editing zelda 3 all these years I was always making edits with HM and then immediately using save state loads to check the area for changes.
If your indoor block was not where you placed it in HM, than yes.

Never once did I actually step out of the dungeon to reload the actual data? Seriously??
Basically you need to reload the RAM for pushable blocks. This is usually done when entering any indoors, but it also might need srm reload to be on the safe side.

I guess because the other data was loading in correct I assumed that all the data loaded this way. So basically all this time I was thinking that moving blocks around in the game required some special hacker voodoo when really the situation was much simpler than I ever imagined.
Yes, that's why people panic. The blocks just don't reload that simple as other objects in the dungeon.

If you consider how the block data is stored, there should be no bugs possible and easy to edit: its just a list of rooms with X and Y coordinates. So the game doesn't really know where all the indoor data is when reading pushable blocks. It just knows the room number and the coordinate. Thus no data can overlap or even needs to be repointed, even if you move/add/or remove pushable blocks. So HM can not glitch this out. Thus any problem with the pushable blocks are RAM related - and thus reload/save state related.


Anyways, on a side note, I keep on getting a graphics glitch. This isn't the first time I've experienced this glitch actually.

I played up until parallel tower in 1st save slot, then quit and started a new game slot, game slot 2. When you first see the uncle in game slot 2 he looks glitched.
This on the other hand is a much more complex/serious problem. It is a result of heavy GFX editing that Conker has gone through. If you now edit gfx even further, these gfx glitches can happen. Debug is possible through complex hex comparing with the original code, bringing back the old code from original ALTTP. But this will also affect a small portion of the gfx sets.

Or in other words, you need to revert to your gfx code from the backup file to fix this and not edit the gfx in such a way, that it will require more hex space. You might want to renounce on further gfx editing or accept this bug. This bug will also appear when Conker is using an item, specially Hookshot. If this is not the case, and Conn can not retrace it, the bug is a random problem.




I do not understand why it seems as if nobody except for me actually takes these things into consideration.
While the slow down problem only happens if the player stays in this room for a while, it still is a problem. And you never know when someone might just come and hang out in this one room for while.
I do take it into consideration. This sprite should always despawn and thus should be put into big room with coridor water. This room is not big, all water and no coridors. The best debug here is to remove the sprites or reduce them: since only 1 sprite will respawn multiple times and make slowdowns.



But I guess I can say that I didn't understand why puzz was so interested in making sure warp tiles were on their correct x,y positions either. Do warp tiles not work if they are incorrectly placed? Because back in the old conker version, they seemed worked just fine.
All warps must be on even X and Y. If not, they will not work properly (you can walk on them and nothing, untill you hit a certain pixel of the corner of the warp - where the even X and Y is - which it seems annoys and confuses players a lot). So we made sure to fix this issue by placing them correctly.

It basically is pure luck and a semi glitch that the warps (just barely) work on other coordinates (which are not even). This is so, since a warp has 4 small parts. And this quarter of the warp will indeed always be on even X and Y. So you thus need to hit the correct quarter of the warp. This means all warps should be on even X and Y (even if the X is even and Y odd, it will not work properly - this time you need to hit two quarters correctly; with odd X and Y, you need to hit the quarter which is still on even X and Y correctly).

This basically means you should always put indoor warps on even X and Y (equal to sprite positions, which also can not have odd coordinates by default - luckily sprites are hardcoded in HM to always be on even coordinates).
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Re: Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

Post by Conn on Sun 19 Nov 2017 - 19:41

This on the other hand is a much more complex/serious problem. It is a result of heavy GFX editing that Conker has gone through. If you now edit gfx even further, these gfx glitches can happen. Debug is possible through complex hex comparing with the original code, bringing back the old code from original ALTTP. But this will also affect a small portion of the gfx sets.

Or in other words, you need to revert to your gfx code from the backup file to fix this and not edit the gfx in such a way, that it will require more hex space. You might want to renounce on further gfx editing or accept this bug. This bug will also appear when Conker is using an item, specially Hookshot. If this is not the case, and Conn can not retrace it, the bug is a random problem.

I remember that I was doing hard to have the uncle without sword, the glitch was reported earlier I think, but also: as it is slot 2 only and hard to reproduce, I see no point fixing. In my view the game is still in its final stage.
What do you mean by using a hookshot? Is this bug also occurring when using the hookshot at the uncle?

Yes, when I added additional warp resets at superskuj and Seph computer, I also took care to place them correctly.
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Re: Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

Post by Erockbrox on Sun 19 Nov 2017 - 20:30

I am wrapping up the Erock version pretty quickly. Only a handfull of remaining things are left.

Here was the mimic room in Parallel Tower.




And Erock version



I might be able to think of something more creative here, but I think this is just fine. The whole thing was that I just didn't like the mimic rooms in the parallel tower.
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Re: Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

Post by Erockbrox on Sun 19 Nov 2017 - 20:34

And for the retro dungeon.

Seph interpretation of my puzzle just wasn't done that well. In fact did you know you can cheat this puzzle because the sprite and block are not aligned correctly horizontally?

Original version





And now Erock Version



The Erock version is the exactly same idea and design, but only works better. This is the superior version of the idea.
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Re: Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

Post by Erockbrox on Sun 19 Nov 2017 - 22:40

Now this next one is very interesting...

Somehow, Conn forgot that in the parallel dungeon that there is a big key to the dungeon or that you automatically had the big key when you entered the dungeon or something.

You can see this in this thread here.

https://www.zeldix.net/t1394p50-new-playthroughs-testing

So because of this thought, lots of changes where made to fix this, but just to be clear there was not a problem in the first place.

Conn wrote:The key in the old concept is only reachable by the red boomerang, but this room is freely accessible anytime. So you can defeat the boss with getting one key whereever, e.g., in this room right at the beginning:

The room is not freely accessible anytime. You need the big key to get the red boomerang and to enter this room.

Then there were decisions to modify a room, put in a pegswitch, add blocks to prevent deku seed and to add in pegs to block a door, which again was not necessary. None of this was necessary.

The major problem with this new design is that it just created problems when there were none. See the red rectangles where the player can't even pass or walk through.

While doing my most recent playthrough I tried to walk underwater to the stairs and ran into a problem when I was faced with a passage that I couldn't traverse through.




Since there was nothing wrong with Seph's design for this room I restored this room back to Seph's original design.

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Re: Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

Post by Erockbrox on Mon 20 Nov 2017 - 1:21

I am now proud to announce that the Jill glitch where her graphics are off set is now fixed!

I repeat Jill graphics are now fixed!!!

That's one more thing to cross off the list, with only a few more things to go until Erock version is finished.

Which leads me to asking a few questions here.

When conker gets a belt, I always thought that this graphic was a glitched frying pan graphic.

I'm now coming to the conclusion that this belt graphic is actually supposed to be a real belt?



Because in my opinion it doesn't look like a belt, and if it is a belt then its broken in the back and connected at the buckle?

Anyways I might get this "belt graphic" improved as well.

Also Conn, I do not know where your "coke fountain" graphics are in yychr. I want to see if I can get this improved upon.

Also also, this big cannon ball graphic, I have always thought that it looked out of place. It doesn't look at all like the smaller cannonball graphic, this will be redrawn too.





Also how come on seph's overworlds the sprites don't show up?


I want to write in 1 monologue, but I don't know which number is free to use? Can someone tell me a safe monologue number to use.

Also with khold stare boss (parallel towers boss), the boss drops down things which are supposed to break up (like ice crystals) which hurt the player, but as you can see here, there is one graphic which is just a few pixels. When I play on my CRT TV I can't ever see these small pixels that are supposed to be graphics. So this will be given a proper graphic too.



Last edited by Erockbrox on Mon 20 Nov 2017 - 5:52; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

Post by Conn on Mon 20 Nov 2017 - 5:35

Also Conn, I do not know where your "coke fountain" graphics are in yychr. I want to see if I can get this improved upon.

Read this message again, more carefully:

Conn wrote:Ok, added froese-david here:
http://bszelda.zeldalegends.net/stuff/Con/High%20Rule%20Tail%20Readme.txt
(also in the zip file of course)
Code:
                                  EXTRA GRAPHICS
                                  --------------
             Charmander106       Kerberos  Bidbood    VGMaps.com
             Steven Donegani     Daisuke   Hyperben2  PhazonWebb16
             superkaminappa9001  Pollux    Ghillie    Bucketboy
             heSpritersResource  Sean NG   Matiz1994  froese-david
I can't edit the ingame credits though, that was done by Euclid, well, probably I could but...

Note that many stuff is uncompressed.
Witch fountain is at 11/d0c0
useable item like the hammer is at 11/c020
sunflower fairy at 11/9000 (while Rougue fairy can be found in zcompress)
...and so on. E.g., SePH used many graphics like the witch for other stuff so I needed to implement it over extra vram transfer.

Much luck Spin
btw You can add more tiles to the witch/fountain by re-implementing the tiles starting at 11/d000 (I made the head and body of the witch transparent, so only the pot and the moving stick are visible).
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Re: Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

Post by Puzzledude on Mon 20 Nov 2017 - 7:21

What do you mean by using a hookshot? Is this bug also occurring when using the hookshot at the uncle?
I see now these are 2 different bugs, so it's all ok. Namely SePH had a gfx problem in which all items used by Conker were glitched-looking specially the Hookshot (but this is not the same bug).

Also how come on seph's overworlds the sprites don't show up?
Probably the part-1 and part-2 sprite loading. Sprites placed in part-1 will not show up in part-2 (ie after you defeat Agahnim), but it could also be the sprite limit issue, so thus sprites could not be put on part 1 and 2, since this doubles the sprites, unless you use the command in part-2: "same sprites as part-1". If this is not the case, than no idea why they don't show up.
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Re: Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

Post by Conn on Mon 20 Nov 2017 - 7:31

Thanks for clearing it up.

Yes, in the drop box you need to select beginning to second part. Other possible reason it does not work is that you need to place the sprites in the under layer (area00-3f) - use Warp Swch button to switch between "light/darkworld"
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Re: Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

Post by Puzzledude on Mon 20 Nov 2017 - 12:36

Yes, in the drop box you need to select beginning to second part. Other possible reason it does not work is that you need to place the sprites in the under layer (area00-3f) - use Warp Swch button to switch between "light/darkworld"
Yes, one would actually ask himself, if the sprites are in light or dark world, since this game uses double layer strategy. I never checked this out.
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Re: Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

Post by Erockbrox on Mon 20 Nov 2017 - 21:46

I'm working on the concept of the coke fountain. Here are some ideas ranging from a vending machine to a bottle/can of coke. Let me know which idea you think would work best as a substitute for the witch.

Note these are mockups and not real in game screens.



I may also not use the witches tiles, but just blank out the witch's graphics and put in regular graphics.
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Re: Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

Post by Erockbrox on Wed 22 Nov 2017 - 5:24

Okay, so I've made a little progress so far.

I found a few graphics using zcompress and yychr that I want to change. However, I cannot find all of them that I wish to change by this method and I am unaware of any other method.

For instance

conn wrote:Note that many stuff is uncompressed.
Witch fountain is at 11/d0c0

I do not know where 11/d0c0 is at all. All I know is that I try and find the graphics in YYCHR. Can you please explain this 11/d0c0 location and how would I be able to change the graphics here once I found them.

Another thing, I was able to find the sony substation floor tile graphics for the outside area (overworld) right before the actual entrance, but I couldn't find the substation floor tile for the interiors using YYCHR.

I need these concepts explained to me.

I don't know what it means to say the graphics are compress vs uncompressed. They should all be in yychr darn it.
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Re: Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

Post by Conn on Wed 22 Nov 2017 - 5:33

Well, with zcompress you get the compressed graphics as bin, and need to recompress them after changing. You need to load the BIN in yy-char.
Uncompressed means that you do not need zcompress, just load directly the ROM in yy-char and navigate to the given address 0x11d0c0.

Unrelated, here's a small complain by Smash:

So, um, was there a way for me to know that dashing into a Cane of Somaria block would make it bounce across the room? Because I got stuck for two weeks on level 10 for not remembering that and had to watch a YouTube video to figure it out.

Good thing the game is awesome so I didn't mind backtracking everywhere too much.and acquiring two Triforce pieces early.
Is there anywhere a hint for it,Puzz?
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Re: Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

Post by Erockbrox on Wed 22 Nov 2017 - 6:04

Okay, I didn't know you could load just the rom in yychr. In smw hacking we never do this, we always load a .bin file, never the smw rom.

okay i found the witch, but since you made her head invisible I will have to try and find that tile. also seems like her lower part and upper part use two different sprite color pallets?

I will try and see if I can make her into a coke vending machine maybe like the old ones.

hmmm not exactly sure how you made the coke fountain from the witch. im confused.



looks like the bottom part of the coke fountain is the witche's pot, but then what is the thing going up and down on the top of the fountain? don't know what part of the witch is this part? and what tile is her body and head???
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Re: Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

Post by Puzzledude on Wed 22 Nov 2017 - 6:14

Is there anywhere a hint for it, Puzz?
I don't think so. It is a well known trick, but a trick nevertheless. I believe some rooms are designed to be passable only with this trick.

I do not know where 11/d0c0 is at all. All I know is that I try and find the graphics in YYCHR. Can you please explain this 11/d0c0 location
The GFX also have addresses. They are displayed in the upper most line of the window itself. But you need to use the arrow down on the keyboard to move from 000000 on correctly. If you click with the mouse anywhere, it will assume this is where your currently displayed address is - this can result in up to 800 bytes deviation when calculating per one such false click.

and how would I be able to change the graphics here once I found them.
What do you think how. The entire YY is a GFX editor, which means you have tons of tools in there, from direct pixel drawing to rotating, filling, colour switching, moving, copy pasting etc etc. You can copy paste gfx from original ALTTP, you can select a partial pixeled image in Paintshopro or any other program capable of copying images pixel-wise. This is even explained in the old HM guide by SePH where he copy pasted the new bush from a sprite sheet directly into the rom (he was using HM's gfx editor there though - where you copy paste entire gfx sets insted of pixel wise, but YY is the way to go).


I don't know what it means to say the graphics are compress vs uncompressed. They should all be in yychr darn it.
LoL, they are both in YYchr. For compressed load the Bin file, for uncompressed, you load the Rom directly.
I scanned the Conker Rom for GFX quickly:
080000 Conker
10F800 some items
119000 Flower
120000 Link (main sprite)
128000 Starwars Trooper (main sprite)
130000 Minish Link (main sprite)
138000 Pony (main sprite)
140000 Zelda (main sprite))
148000 Another Link (main sprite)
150000 Yet another Link (main sprite)
158000 Conker (main sprite)
160000 Neo (main sprite)
168000 Link again (main sprite)
198000 Another main sprite
2F4C00 The end letters
The upper things are thus uncompressed, everything else is compressed.

Another thing, I was able to find the sony substation floor tile graphics for the outside area (overworld) right before the actual entrance, but I couldn't find the substation floor tile for the interiors using YYCHR.
Well its in the bin file. But indeed it is hard to find the exact tile set you are looking for. Open this element in HM and go to edit. Then it will display the entire tile set in which this element is in. Print-screen this entire tile set and then it would be easier to find it in YY.


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Re: Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

Post by Conn on Wed 22 Nov 2017 - 6:44

I told you that already erock, the graphics start at 11/d000, the head and body are transparent and thus don't show up. If you put any graphics there, they do show up. And yes, the pot is the well. The stick is the up/down thing (should be a dildo water fountain) I simply removed some frames.

I don't think so. It is a well known trick, but a trick nevertheless. I believe some rooms are designed to be passable only with this trick.
mh, I consider making 1.2.6b where I point in the main entrance to this "Dash into a seed to solve first riddle or so", some non-zelda-veterans surely have problems here.


Last edited by Conn on Wed 22 Nov 2017 - 6:51; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

Post by Puzzledude on Wed 22 Nov 2017 - 6:47

looks like the bottom part of the coke fountain is the witche's pot, but then what is the thing going up and down on the top of the fountain? don't know what part of the witch is this part? and what tile is her body and head???

I now analyzed what Conn did. This is great and advanced. You see, the Shop man and the Witch are not compatible, so they can not be squeezed into one sprite tile set, since there is no space for additional gfx.

What Conn did is probably some aditional ASM, which than loads this sprite from the uncompressed region, but very complex. Middle main 2 squares are loaded once. Left upper and left lower are loaded normal on the left and then again on the right mirrored to make pot complete. Then additional 4 small squares are loaded sequantially to make it move and are loaded "in front" of the other squares.

But only these 8 tiles are in effect. There is no way for you Erock to change this into a Coke the way you want to. You would need more than 8 tiles and obviously not loaded/mirrored/animated/"in front" like this. You would need like 4x3= 12 static tiles for instance, or at least 3x2, but again static and loaded "normally" and "uniquely". The fountain is done in a completely different way. This means you will need na lot more than just a GFX edit to handle this. You would also need code edited to tell it to not mirror, animate, load in front etc etc.

The only thing I can suggest to leave this as it is, otherwise you need some overhauls here. What you see in this fountain is actually a very well made and though out concept, which is not compatible with your coke machine idea at all.
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Re: Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

Post by Puzzledude on Wed 22 Nov 2017 - 6:53

I told you that already erock, the graphics start at 11/d000, the head and body are transparent and thus don't show up. If you put any graphics there, they do show up. And yes, the pot is the well. The stick is the up/down thing (should be a water fountain) I simply removed some frames.
Oh yea, you took it from the original, where the pot is loaded like that, and the stick in Conker game is the witche's hand in ALTTP.

So there is still hope for the Coke, to draw where the static part of the witch was at. And the mixing stick/hand is transparent. This leaves 2x2 + 3x2 to draw the coke (2 on center and left 2 mirrored to the right). It's doable but not necessary in my oppinion.


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Re: Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

Post by Conn on Wed 22 Nov 2017 - 7:00

He could implement the witch body and head and shift a bit to the left, then it gets higher... but this requires asm knowledge he does not have (coordinate altering). Also implementing new palette colors (or simply change the "global" palette is out of reach for him I think. But as said, I am out of this project more or less, and start getting sick alone thinking about co-developing your Erock fork, as you certainly will have a mountain of thingies to change... I am surely out here.

Before I consider changing that monologue in PW ruins main entrance, are there more of such tricks? I did not really play that game often (developers' curse). Maybe bouncing back invisible to the bumpers in Erock's folder hint.
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Re: Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

Post by Puzzledude on Wed 22 Nov 2017 - 7:04

Before I consider changing that monologue in PW ruins main entrance, are there more of such tricks? I did not really play that game often (developers' curse). Maybe bouncing back invisible to the bumpers in Erock's folder hint.
Yes: hitting the cane of somaria block by running into it, use the Cape and dash and bounce across the pit and through the bumper, use the Cape while on full health to fire sword beams in a peg switch and come through the bumpers.

But it is considered for players to "figuere this out" when playing specially the other 2 tricks. I think adding just this somaria bounce trick is enough.


He could implement the witch body and head and shift a bit to the left, then it gets higher... but this requires asm knowledge he does not have (coordinate altering). Also implementing new palette colors
Indeed. I forgot about the pals altering. But I saw how the fountain is made and I knew a simple gfx change is not enough.
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Puzzledude



Since : 2012-06-20

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Re: Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

Post by Conn on Wed 22 Nov 2017 - 7:56

Right, using the sword beam on bumpers in Jedi temple is much obvious. The invisible dash bounce back is only present in erocks folder. I'll take a look there and probably add a small note there too.
Unfortunately the kicking hint in pw ruins appears mandatory. However, it's monologue is in the shifted region. Ah well. Hope this is the last time to shift. Btw: I consider make a small spoiler walkthrough how to get through your quite hard block puzzle, that one with aghanim/zelda at the entrance... any idea how to do that best? Video, or a pdf as you did for iq?
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Conn



Since : 2013-06-30

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Re: Erock's Version Conker 1.2.7

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