SunGodPortal's Burning Questions

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SunGodPortal's Burning Questions

Post by SunGodPortal on Fri 20 Feb 2015 - 2:10

I mentioned doing this before so here it is. I've asked a lot of questions and I will no doubt ask a lot more. So, as a service to the other members here I have created one place where I can ask all of the questions I need. This will save space on the board. It will also make it easier for people who hate me (and want to see me suffer) to more easily ignore me. You're welcome. Razz

So here's my first inquiry: I believe rooms 13, 32, 51, 79, 191, 202, 293 and 295 say that they are reused when you make changes to them and try to save. Are there any negative consequences associated with having something completely different in two rooms that correspond in this fashion? If so, it there a feature in HM to remove this property that I am not aware of yet?

EDIT: I just thought of another one. I've downloaded two versions of Hyrule Magic so far. The one that I believe to be the newer of the two has a few extra options like "move pointers", "port" and the overlay option in the overworld editor. Assuming these actually work, it's nice to have extra features. But what I'm wondering is: Besides having a few more tricks up it's sleeve, is this newer version any less troublesome than what I believe may be the more common version? Is it any worse? That would explain why I more often see the older version for download...
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Re: SunGodPortal's Burning Questions

Post by Puzzledude on Fri 20 Feb 2015 - 2:50

So here's my first inquiry: I believe rooms 13, 32, 51, 79, 191, 202, 293 and 295 say that they are reused when you make changes to them and try to save. Are there any negative consequences associated with having something completely different in two rooms that correspond in this fashion? If so, it there a feature in HM to remove this property that I am not aware of yet?
Yes, there are negative consequences. Some rooms are "data twins" and many more are "header twins" which means that two rooms might share the very same data. With data twins, you can "detwin them", but you just need to be careful how much data (object) to add. Usually 10 percent of all rooms out of 295 must remain empty, since there is no room for objects. But using my advanced hex-gluing method all 295 can be filled, even the ones you don't see in HM, namely 320 in all.

But rooms 1-255 are suitable for dungeons, while 256-320 are not, and were designed for houses and short caves and can not handle multiple entrances and are more fragile for bugs.

Header twins are a pain. Sometime even 4 rooms share the same header. If you detwin this, you will surely get "no room for room header". Again my hex-gluing method can however use full header of all 320 rooms, the fact, that original can only dream of. But there is a new version of HM, which can expand that, while you can still edit normally. This is a special version of HM, which basically does the same as in my method (full header can be used).



I just thought of another one. I've downloaded two versions of Hyrule Magic so far. The one that I believe to be the newer of the two has a few extra options like "move pointers", "port" and the overlay option in the overworld editor.
There are 3 versions, 962, 963, 963 (can move headers). Definitely use the last one (the one which has the possibility of the "move header data", since this is the best version.
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Re: SunGodPortal's Burning Questions

Post by SunGodPortal on Fri 20 Feb 2015 - 3:00

In that case, should I use the "move header data" before OR while I am editing dungeons? Is this something that only has to be done once or any time I start a new room?

Also, is there a tutorial for the hex-gluing method? I looked in the docs section but didn't see it unless it's under a different name.
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Re: SunGodPortal's Burning Questions

Post by Puzzledude on Fri 20 Feb 2015 - 4:05

In that case, should I use the "move header data" before OR while I am editing dungeons? Is this something that only has to be done once or any time I start a new room?
Can be any time actually, but it would be better if done before editing. This is a one time only, since the header for all rooms is transfered.

Also, is there a tutorial for the hex-gluing method? I looked in the docs section but didn't see it unless it's under a different name.
I don't believe it was ever documented, however it is heavily dependent on the RT program, as well as the Pointer info (document) and the Dungeon hex data info (document). If you take a look, how RT realocates data and know how pointers work.

Short version of the method:
-Primary file: all gfx, asm and overworlds are done here, while having houses and caves done as well. Main dungeons are set and the entrance properties fixed.
-Primary file gets copy pasted (first secondary file for dungeon one). Construct 1st dungeon.
-Primary file gets copy pasted (second dungeon done), etc for all dungeons

-Run file with dungeon 1 through RT (first step, no actual transfer done), this brings all dungeon data at the end of the rom and easy viewable in hex (file no longer compatible with HM). Same for all dungeons.

-In a completely separate file (empty file opened in hex with nothing but 00 bytes in 2MB) new fixed precalculated pointers are set for data, header, items, sprites, torches, pushable blocks.

This is somewhat difficult (mandatory reading of the Pointer document and the Vital dungeon hex data document). Haven't done this yet for everything, but when you do this, maximum space is used (which means you never run out). For instance max for header info is 1 line per room. (I will probably upload this test file, so you can see how this looks like). This takes quite long, but once done, everyone can use it.

-Final step is hex copy pasting.
1. copy paste precalculated pointers into main file
2. copy all data from dungeon 1 into main file (by rooms) same for all dungeons.
-At this time all dugeons are in main file on locations, compatible with precalculated pointers.
3. final step, edit primary pointer to point to secondary (precalculated) pointers (in the second MB), rather than original secondary pointers (in the first MB). File now has 2MB.

Effect: file is "locked" for editing in HM (completely incompatible), no bugs, max space for header and everything else, use of all 320 rooms.
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Re: SunGodPortal's Burning Questions

Post by SunGodPortal on Fri 20 Feb 2015 - 18:27

1) There's an exit near Link's house labled "1006" and it says that it goes to room "4102", which of course is BS. Does anyone know the real purpose of this "exit"?

2) When I ask HM to move pointers > move data it asks me where to move it to. Where's the best location for this? I know space is tight but now that I'm working on dungeons it's obvious that I need more room for this.

3) Any time I place Zelda where I want her (which is usually outside or in Link's house) the music that normally plays upon meeting her no longer does. The music stops and there is only silence until I leave the screen/exit/enter. Anyone know why that is or perhaps a remedy for this? I don't want the music to change at all because in my hack this is not a "dramatic rescue" and of course the silence is akward.

4) I'm pretty sure I've seen this somewhere around here but I can't find it now. How do you disable the map function? I'd like to do this for both the dungeons and overworld if possible.

5) The electric barrier can be placed indoors but is there a way to make it display properly when used like this? I REALLY want to use this in my dungeons to get more use out of the Magic Cape.
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Re: SunGodPortal's Burning Questions

Post by Euclid on Sat 21 Feb 2015 - 5:19

Exits in the 1000s are used for the ending scrolling scenes, they mark the initial spot where the camera starts, then the scrolling occurs (the way the scrolling occurs is hardcoded).

Someone else can help with the other questions.
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Re: SunGodPortal's Burning Questions

Post by Puzzledude on Sat 21 Feb 2015 - 5:20

1) This exit is for the ending sequence, so that the game knows which overworld areas to show during that time. This exit is mandatory, otherwise you will have black screen in the ending sequence, from this point on (this exit at Link's house is: "your uncle recovers" screen).

2) You need to expand the rom to 2MB first and then choose any address in there, for instance 118000.

3) Zelda can not be placed anywhere for the music to be accurate (outside won't work, house either). It is hardcoded to go to the "castle" music after she is rescued. You need ASM to change this. Overworld can not load "castle" music, it is thus quiet.

4) To disable maps indoors: this address is written in the Vital hex addresses document.
Dungeon maps removal
address (no header) 10908
address (with heder) 10B08

value F0 (maps are displayed when pressing X button in any dungeon)

value 80 (maps are NOT displayed when pressing X button in any dungeon = optimal, since the dungeon maps are always bugged or inaccurate)

Not sure about the overworld.


5) Electric barrier inside will be gfx glitched by default. As far as I know, this is an overworld sprite.
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Re: SunGodPortal's Burning Questions

Post by SunGodPortal on Sat 21 Feb 2015 - 5:40

1) Okay. I'll leave it alone then.

2) Thanks. Will do.

3) Okay. If it can't be helped I'll find some way to make it less akward.

4) So that's where I saw it. Cool. As for the overworld I was just trying to get around having to redo the overworld map because I wanted to have a smaller overworld, and therefore you would have to be really stupid to get lost in it.

5) That's terrible news. The compendium had it listed in the sprites that can be in both the overworld and dungeons. I guess it was correct, it just didn't say it would look butchered. I need to find some solution for this. If I can't do that maybe I can redraw those stupid "bumper" graphics into something less bizarre and "out of place" looking.

Because of the sheer volume of questions I've been asking I feels it's appropriate to thank you and anyone else who has been helping me with all of this stuff (you, Conn and SePH I believe). I would be totally lost without you guys and would probably wuss out and give up on modding this game.
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Re: SunGodPortal's Burning Questions

Post by Conn on Sat 21 Feb 2015 - 5:47

2) You need to expand the rom to 2MB first and then choose any address in there, for instance 118000.
better 12/0000 if you use the completeitems/all-in. 118000 isn't used by me yet but it's Close (my current code with flute invisible tiles Ends at 11/72c1) and at 11/f000 the Video msu code is located. But I'll probably never use 12/0000 ff.
Also Problem with 11/8000 is e.g., if you use the green Magic autorefill as the pointers in the description is pointing here:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

With the barrier indoors I can't help for now, but Euclid made indoors monsters on overworld in PW, maybe he knows more.
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Re: SunGodPortal's Burning Questions

Post by SunGodPortal on Sat 21 Feb 2015 - 6:35

Would this help with the electric barrier problem or does it have to do with something completely different?

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If not I may go ahead and try that idea about changing the bumper graphics. I like how they can be used but when I look at them I always think "What the hell is this supposed to be?". They don't really say "magical fantasy" like nearly everything else in the game. Maybe it could turned into something silly like a giant piece of candy or jello. I don't know...

better 12/0000 if you use the completeitems/all-in. 118000 isn't used by me yet but it's Close (my current code with flute invisible tiles Ends at 11/72c1) and at 11/f000 the Video msu code is located. But I'll probably never use 12/0000 ff.

I doubt I'll be using the complete items. I'd actually like to have only the original items that were most useful (maybe as few as 10). I won't have stuff like the book or flute and the magic items will be kept to a minimum (most make the game too easy). But some of that stuff looks pretty cool so I'll go ahead and use 12/0000 just in case I change my mind.
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Re: SunGodPortal's Burning Questions

Post by Conn on Sat 21 Feb 2015 - 7:34

The Transfer sprites is a completely different hack. Every sprite used Needs space in the Rom, so the amount is limited. This hack Transfers the pointers to an Extended space area; this lets you have much more sprites to use.
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Re: SunGodPortal's Burning Questions

Post by Puzzledude on Sat 21 Feb 2015 - 8:17

It is for that reason, that my precalculated pointers started at 1D0000, since I knew, that most of the 1st MB is usually used for additional ASM.

Would this help with the electric barrier problem or does it have to do with something completely different?
No. Transfer sprites is a fantastic ASM by Conn, that allows you to even move the sprite code, since the 3rd value of the 3 byte pointer was missing. Without this code, hex-gluing method would be impossible, you couldn't move the sprite code and you would have sprite limitation (number of sprites was fixed).

With this code, you can put in (using hex) so many sprites, that the emulator can not handle it (slowdown).

To solve the electric barrier, you would need to redraw its indoor gfx, and no heartpiece can be in the same room. We also don't know, how it will react indoors once cut and screen reloaded.
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Re: SunGodPortal's Burning Questions

Post by Conn on Sat 21 Feb 2015 - 8:35

my codes start usually at 10/2000-11/ffff and use unfortunately most of the free space in the native Rom (I did not map e.g., the ice rod freezing water asm to space in Extended Areas at the time I coded this).
Also I moved the ending Screen to 1f/0000; but all between 12/0000-1e/ffff is free.

With this code, you can put in (using hex) so many sprites, that the emulator can not handle it (slowdown).
Speaking of which, I found a fabulous code for SMW enabling the sa-1 chip:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Unfortunately, my asm skills are not advanced enough to enable it for ALTTP; I also do not know whether this would work with HM as much stuff Needs to be relocated
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Re: SunGodPortal's Burning Questions

Post by Puzzledude on Sat 21 Feb 2015 - 8:58

That's ok. I remember wiiqwert made a patch for the so called "fast rom", which can handle much more sprites before slowdown (but the limit still exist, it is only bigger), but I believe the sprite limit for slowdown really isn't such a problem, the bigger problem was not to be able to move the data (which is now solved).
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Re: SunGodPortal's Burning Questions

Post by Conn on Sat 21 Feb 2015 - 9:29

Yes, I just looked at the sa-1 asm:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
and do not understand much here.

Do you have the patch by wiiqwert somewhere? I only found this:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I think it can be done. However, as you already pointed out, slowdowns are not much a Problem, as Long as you don't use too many sprites/Screen in your Project.
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Re: SunGodPortal's Burning Questions

Post by Puzzledude on Sat 21 Feb 2015 - 13:18

These are the files I have (this is how wiiwert released them):

ASM
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TXT
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IPS
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Re: SunGodPortal's Burning Questions

Post by SunGodPortal on Sat 21 Feb 2015 - 13:56

Oh okay. So it is something completely different.

Puzz wrote:To solve the electric barrier, you would need to redraw its indoor gfx, and no heartpiece can be in the same room. We also don't know, how it will react indoors once cut and screen reloaded.

That makes it's sound like there are separate graphics for it when used indoors, but surely that is not what you mean. When indoors it appears to just load the wrong graphics. I wonder if I could just copy/paste the barrier graphics (inside the ROM) over whatever graphics it's using instead. I would no longer be able to use the sprite that I'm overwriting but depending on which ones the are I may be okay with that.

Not putting a heart piece in the same room would be easy to avoid.

As for your last point and also my assumed solution, I guess I'll just have to try it out and see what happens. This should be fun. Smile
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Re: SunGodPortal's Burning Questions

Post by Conn on Sat 21 Feb 2015 - 14:51

mh, the asm is incomplete since
incsrc JSL.asm ; Change all JSL's to fastrom area
incsrc JML.asm ; Change all JML's to fastrom area
incsrc tables.asm ; Change all dl's and some tables to fastrom area

are missing. However, the IPS has that all included. Unfortunately, it expands the Rom to 4MB. also 10/8000 is no good address for such a short code. Maybe I fix that.
I do not know how compatible this is with all other patches, but there might be some issues. Usually the Emulator makes no difference whether it is 00/xxxx (native) or 80/xxxx (fastrom), but I do not know how it turns out if you have fastrom Speed but then Switch to a lorom address (e.g., using some of my codes, you jump from 80/xxxx to some extented space but then jump back to 00/xxxx. But this is to try out if anybody is interested.
I'd suggest to upload the code to
Zeldix :: Resources :: Patches :: Innovative Hacks :: Other hacks
in any case Smile What do you think?
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Re: SunGodPortal's Burning Questions

Post by Puzzledude on Sat 21 Feb 2015 - 15:16

I forgot about those:

JML
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

JSL
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tables
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The fast rom IPS can be uploaded into the "Other hacks" section.

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Re: SunGodPortal's Burning Questions

Post by SePH on Sat 21 Feb 2015 - 17:23

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wiiqwertyuiop also released these^^

Basically they are asm hacks too.

The custom sprite inserter is interesting since it adds brand new sprites into the game that uses new graphics, dialogues and functions like the five hundred rupee sprite of a diamond he made long ago... but this defenitively worth a shot if you're ever tempted Conn!


Last edited by SePH on Sat 21 Feb 2015 - 17:24; edited 1 time in total

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Re: SunGodPortal's Burning Questions

Post by Conn on Sat 21 Feb 2015 - 17:23

Alright, thanks Smile
I uploaded it on the bszelda Server and posted it here:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I'd strongly recommend to not use this patch on your Projects for now, as I do know too little about it. In any case, data in the expanded area of your Rom will be overwritten if you apply it (affects e.g., all my all-in hacks).

As I assume, it's only needed to set the bit0 of $420d and all addresses labelled with $80/xxxx are run in fastrom mode (faster) while native addressing (in this case this would be $00/xxxx) are still valid.
If this is the case I can make the patch to work with all your Projects and my hacks.
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Re: SunGodPortal's Burning Questions

Post by Conn on Sat 21 Feb 2015 - 18:33

Alright, ported and tested and with magnificent results :p

When using the Nimbus and the 3 Gold bees appear there's a Major slowdown noticeable. With this patch it's almost gone ^^ anybody who likes to try out, you're welcome. Just take the all-in Rom, use the srm, go to an area with many Monsters and use the Nimbus:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

and then apply this patch on your all-in Rom:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

and test again ^^

This patch should also work with Project my complete items hack was applied to. Puzz, can you test it with GoT or whatever by using the Nimbus?
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Re: SunGodPortal's Burning Questions

Post by SunGodPortal on Sat 21 Feb 2015 - 22:21

I got it to work but I suppose there are a few quirks I'll have to address depending on where I use it. No deal-breakers though as far as I can tell. After fixing the graphics it seems it will function as normal so long as the room setup agrees with it.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Score.


Last edited by SunGodPortal on Sat 21 Feb 2015 - 23:04; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : uploaded a better image)
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Re: SunGodPortal's Burning Questions

Post by SunGodPortal on Sat 28 Feb 2015 - 4:19

1) In the overworld editor, is there an efficient way to view only the blocks that are compatible with the currently loaded GFX set?

It would be nice to get the "garbage tiles" out of the way. I know you can do something like this with the "Find blocks" menu/box but I wouldn't call it efficient since there are probably 3000+ tiles and that's a lot of boxes to check/uncheck. Who knows? This menu may even be able to do this for me, but I haven't found any detailed information about it.

Also...
2) Can the "Overworld GFX# sets" be edited in HM? None of the reference materials I've studied were very clear about this.

"I'd like to put this next to that, but the game sure thinks it's a bad idea" is becoming annoying. In most cases I feel like being able to swap out one or two things would solve the problem, but I don't know how.
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Re: SunGodPortal's Burning Questions

Post by Puzzledude on Sat 28 Feb 2015 - 5:42

1) Unfortunately no. You can only view, what is currently loaded (which means you see the garbage tiles on the right, since all 8000 tiles are defined there). Only a small amount of them will display correctly.

I remember GameMakr made a list of all tiles in native Alttp. Then he created a program to "search" which tiles are loaded where and even which tiles can be placed next to a current tile (so you can not make a drawing mistake by putting together false tiles). But his custom xml based overworld editor is not available for public (his words).

2) You can not edit the gfx sets in HM. Gfx can be edited only once decompressed (in any other program). But you can edit which gfx set number to load in what area or indoors with HM.
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