Project-Nested

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Post by D2DEZEL Sat 10 Jul 2021 - 17:58

Project Nested is a NES emulator running on the raw power of the SNES. Inspired by the SNES originally designed to be backward compatible.
If you have legally owned ROM dump of NES games, they may be playable on SNES by using Project Nested and a flash cart (SD2SNES, Super Everdrive, etc).

https://github.com/Myself086/Project-Nested/releases

See compatiblity list here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xKZIyNz1DSI3ZBdMfaTEaa_9b6IEABx-ZPwOb6XqcLQ/edit?usp=sharing
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Post by Conn Tue 13 Jul 2021 - 15:34

I don't think this will happen. We have a super Gameboy rom for the technical details, but even the Gameboy color seems to be impossible for the SNES. But if you want to play NES games with improved graphics and music, go for mesen... I think this is the future for "NES MSU"...
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Post by Conn Tue 13 Jul 2021 - 16:13

Well, you see... All 170 MSU patches done werre achieved by maybe 10 people. All MD MSU hacks by maybe 5 people. If you do not have some nerds behind a technique, no patches are developed... That simple. If there aren't genuine minds behind anything, nothing is created (look at fxpak, if there wasn't that ONE guy for sgb or super fx, we'd still would not have it (maybe super fx and sfb were 2 different people, I can't recall sorry, but you get what I mean).
And without byuu we'd neither have MSU and probably not msu-md. R.I.P. Sad

If you want to see more stuff you desire, you need to help yourself and learn how to achieve it... Means, learn develop patches yourself Wink
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Post by Polargames Fri 16 Jul 2021 - 3:54

This is very neat. I wish them the best of getting more games up and running. Very Happy I wounder if snes emulators might have NES playback in them?

Does this mean that back in the day the SNES could of been bc with NES games if Nintendo wanted it to be?
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Post by D2DEZEL Tue 20 Jul 2021 - 15:39

https://www.quora.com/Why-didnt-Nintendo-develop-an-adapter-that-enabled-SNES-consoles-to-play-NES-games

There’s a few bits of the SNES’s hardware that were modeled with backwards compatibility in mind - the SNES’s 65c816 CPU can operate in 6502 mode, which makes it operationally compatible with the NES’s CPU, and some of the system’s memory locations are exact mirrors - for example, games on the SNES can access the raw interfaces to the controllers in the same locations in memory as the NES, $4016 and $4017. There are other places where we can see vestiges of this backwards compatibility, but in the end, cost considerations made it end up scrapped.

But one of the most crucial differences between the SNES and NES, which makes an adapter like that impossible, is the fact that the graphics memory for the NES is mostly in the cartridge, and the NES’s Picture Processing Unit (PPU) reads data live from the cartridge to make the display, while the SNES has that memory inside the console itself. This enabled smarter games on the NES to swap in and out bits of the memory to “fool” the PPU into show more information than it had access to, with the so-called “mapper” chips. Having this memory be consolidated inside the SNES made it impossible to do these tricks, and as multiple NES games (especially late into the console’s life) made use of those tricks to display more complex scenes, they wouldn’t be reproducible with the SNES’s configuration.

This difference is in contrast with the Mega Drive with its Master System compatibility - as the Master System had its video memory embedded in the console, one of the few things that SEGA had to do to enable backwards compatibility was to embed parts of the Video Display Processor (VDP) from the Master System inside the Mega Drive VDP, and set up a bypass from the cartridge port to the audio CPU, which was the same CPU as in the Master System.
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Post by Polargames Thu 22 Jul 2021 - 23:13

@D2DEZEL, Thank for the information on it. I did not know at all. It would of been cool for the snes to have bc on NES games, but the cost would not of panned out. I wounder though, If someone would make an NES add-on for the bottom port of the SNES, if that could work to read NES games. Just wondering at this point. lol Very Happy
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Post by D2DEZEL Fri 23 Jul 2021 - 20:13

Yes it's possible. I have a Tri-Star Pal and even a Nes controller with a Snes connector. All Nes and Famicom games also work and with Expansion Audio games

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Post by Polargames Fri 23 Jul 2021 - 23:16

D2DEZEL wrote:Yes it's possible. I have a Tri-Star Pal and even a Nes controller with a Snes connector. All Nes and Famicom games also work and with Expansion Audio games


It looks like someone has beat me to the punch. lol I had no clue a device like that was even real. That is so cool. Are there any mods you can do to it? Did you do them?

Is your SFC system modded for HD output? ( OSSC, Retrotink 5X) on that order?
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Post by Conn Sat 24 Jul 2021 - 3:36

That is cool. I even found the bios and was able to load (the bios) in bsnes. There you can switch between 8-bit and 16-bit. However, there I cannnot move forwards, since I do not know how to load a nes game - the bsnes has only options to load bs-x games or super gameboy games.
Google: Tri-Star Super 8 BIOS (NES-SNES Adapter) ROM
It is not licensed to Nintendo, but I don't dare to post the bios here nevertheless.

Project-Nested Image121


This could be reported to devinacker and asked as feature in bsnesplus:
https://github.com/devinacker/bsnes-plus/issues

Looking in my crystal ball however I am not sure if something like msu is possible. The SGB can communicate with the SNES (DATA_SND) and thus you can e.g. send a byte to the snes ram whenever a track changed in the GB. I am not sure how it is working in TRISTAR
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Post by D2DEZEL Sat 24 Jul 2021 - 5:41

Polargames wrote:It looks like someone has beat me to the punch. lol I had no clue a device like that was even real. That is so cool. Are there any mods you can do to it? Did you do them?

Is your SFC system modded for HD output? ( OSSC, Retrotink 5X) on that order?

So yes on my super nintendo I have the switchless 50 60hz, an rgb output and the Tri-Star is also modified because it is a Pal console and it reads the Nes Pal and Ntsc games
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Post by D2DEZEL Sat 24 Jul 2021 - 5:50

Conn wrote:That is cool. I even found the bios and was able to load (the bios) in bsnes. There you can switch between 8-bit and 16-bit. However, there I cannnot move forwards, since I do not know how to load a nes game - the bsnes has only options to load bs-x games or super gameboy games.
Google: Tri-Star Super 8 BIOS (NES-SNES Adapter) ROM
It is not licensed to Nintendo, but I don't dare to post the bios here nevertheless.

https://i.servimg.com/u/f50/18/39/92/77/image121.jpg


This could be reported to devinacker and asked as feature in bsnesplus:
https://github.com/devinacker/bsnes-plus/issues

Looking in my crystal ball however I am not sure if something like msu is possible. The SGB can communicate with the SNES (DATA_SND) and thus you can e.g. send a byte to the snes ram whenever a track changed in the GB. I am not sure how it is working in TRISTAR

I think that for the Msu-1 it will not work with the tri-star, because it is really a Nes pirate from 1993 which uses the power supply and the controller port of the super nintendo, the bios is only used to choose between the 8 bit (Tri-Star) or 16 bit (the super nintendo) console

For Nes games to work with Msu-1 I think the Nested project will work better because it converts Nes roms to Snes roms
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Post by D2DEZEL Sat 24 Jul 2021 - 6:06

Consoles like the Tri-Star, they exist quite a few like the ones I have in my possession for the super nintendo

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Post by Conn Sat 24 Jul 2021 - 6:19

At least for the tri-star there seems to be bad news:
Captain Jistuce —
The Tri-Star absolutely had a Famiclone in a cart.
It didn't even output video through the Super Nintendo, it did a 32x-style passthrough.
As exciting as the idea is, it really was just a Nintendo sitting on top of your Super Nintendo.
Which, ironically, is something Nintendo planned. Some of the prototypes for the Super Nintendo show it with a matching Regular Nintendo, and the Super having an AV switch in it.
https://www.nintendolife.com/forums/retro/super_famicom_snes_earliest_images_and_articles_from_1988_and_1989 You can actually see it here.
(They woulda sat side-by-side instead of stacking up like tiny stereo components. Oh well, we'll always have LaserActive.)
Huh... this actually presents a use case where the multi-out connector makes sense. It creates a much simpler passthrough configuration where you don't have to trust people to keep near as many identical connectors straight. RCA from the Regular Nintendo to your TV, or to your Super Nintendo. Super Nintendo has RCA in and multi-out. The only thing you can do wrong is mix up the composite and the audio connectors.

Means the tri-star was more or less a NES (it had a NES-CPU on board). It seems to simply bypass the snes (only take joypad info). So it seems to be not possible to add MSU or other adjustments, and if you want to play NES games, stick e.g., to MESEN.
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Post by Conn Sun 25 Jul 2021 - 6:02

Ok, I looked into it, so far it works:
https://streamable.com/ust4gi

Track change on zelda is $0609, the value to $2004 and at this time $0604 to #$80 for mute. Should be easy to msu that stuff Wink
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Post by D2DEZEL Sun 25 Jul 2021 - 13:41

Conn wrote:Ok, I looked into it, so far it works:
https://streamable.com/ust4gi

Track change on zelda is $0609, the value to $2004 and at this time $0604 to #$80 for mute. Should be easy to msu that stuff Wink

Super Conn !!! the msu has no limit Very Happy
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Post by Conn Sun 25 Jul 2021 - 16:40

Pev and I are on it
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Post by D2DEZEL Sun 25 Jul 2021 - 17:03

I added the roms translated into German and French
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Post by Polargames Sun 25 Jul 2021 - 23:34

D2DEZEL wrote:So yes on my super nintendo I have the switchless 50 60hz, an rgb output and the Tri-Star is also modified because it is a Pal console and it reads the Nes Pal and Ntsc games

Was it hard to mod it at all?

Wow, that is so cool. I have a friend who collects for the SNES, I will have to let him know about this device, if he does not know already. I know its not an official unit for the SNES but I wished Nintendo would of made it back then. Think of how much money they would of made. Smile
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Post by Polargames Sun 25 Jul 2021 - 23:35

Conn wrote:Ok, I looked into it, so far it works:
https://streamable.com/ust4gi

Track change on zelda is $0609, the value to $2004 and at this time $0604 to #$80 for mute. Should be easy to msu that stuff Wink

Awesome. That is really great to here. Smile  I wish you and pev the bust of luck on it.


Last edited by Polargames on Sun 25 Jul 2021 - 23:36; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo)
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Post by Polargames Sun 25 Jul 2021 - 23:36

D2DEZEL wrote:I added the roms translated into German and French

AWESOME!! Smile
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Post by D2DEZEL Mon 26 Jul 2021 - 2:53

Polargames wrote:Was it hard to mod it at all?

Wow, that is so cool. I have a friend who collects for the SNES, I will have to let him know about this device, if he does not know already. I know its not an official unit for the SNES but I wished Nintendo would of made it back then. Think of how much money they would of made. Smile  

No, nothing complicated, I made a diagram I would put it later, namely that there are two versions of the tri-star one Pal and the other in Ntsc (Super 8) I have modified the Pal version for  be able to play on both regions

Normally nintendo had to release it

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Post by Conn Mon 26 Jul 2021 - 14:33

I'm pretty busy with the msu stuff for zelda 1, it is harder than you'd expect.

for my memory
This may help:
7e066C-01 is the cheat for invincible.
7e0659-02 is for silver arrows
7e0657:03 is the magic sword.
7e0661:FF full triforce

With these codes, you should not have much trouble to get to Ganon. If you need more items, try values in the at 7e0652-7e065e region
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Post by JUD6MENT Mon 26 Jul 2021 - 21:42

Oh wow, we actually doing NES msu-1? That is awesome. I just passed my last college exam and i got a good month where my schedule is pretty open. If you want any help with playtesting or making music pcm sets you got my support and i will be more than happy to help out
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