Minish Cap Zelda

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Re: Minish Cap Zelda

Post by NinjaGamer on Thu 14 Jan 2016 - 14:52

This is very helpful, thanks! I won't be able to edit Ghillie's MC Link into MC Zelda cause the MC Link patch only worked when I patched it to the sfc file, the smc file wouldn't load the rom. Also, I won't have to make new animations for MC Zelda will I? I just edit Link's ExGFX into Zelda and save it right?

Okay so I tried loading ALTTP.smc with zsnes but it just crashes. What version of zsnes do you guys use? Could you possibly send me a savestate?

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Re: Minish Cap Zelda

Post by Puzzledude on Thu 14 Jan 2016 - 16:11

I patched it to the sfc file, the smc file wouldn't load the rom
There is no difference if the file extension is sfc or smc, what matters is the content. And you need to know, that the IPS patch for ghillie's sprite must be applied to a clean non-headered US Alttp rom, doesn't matter if sfc or smc. Works on both, if the SFC has the same CRC as SMC. If you apply to headered (which you probably did), it will not work. If you apply to EU or Japan version, it will not work etc. And if applied wrong, your Rom is corrupt (which probably happened to you), which can not be changed. Such a rom must be deleted, that's why you need to work on a copy of the rom when patching, while keeping the original intact.

Also, I won't have to make new animations for MC Zelda will I? I just edit Link's ExGFX into Zelda and save it right?
Yes, however there are around 50 Link's heads to edit and around 50 bodies, which covers for all possible animations. So the animation is covered by editing multiple images/instances of all possible "states" of a sprite, which are needed to display the sprite correctly when walking, pulling, dashing, swimming etc.
Drawing a main sprite is no easy task. Maybe you should try some easier sprite as a beginning to see how it works.

Okay so I tried loading ALTTP.smc with zsnes but it just crashes. What version of zsnes do you guys use?
So you are saying, that you are unable to play a game with the emulator. Loading a clean Alttp rom (any version, headered or unheadered) will work in any version of Zsnes emulator. I'm guessing this is a result of false patching and your Alttp rom was permanently corrupted (blame the person who invented the IPS format). Redownload the smc rom and always work on a copy when patching.

If you are unable to patch a simple IPS file (which works and was tested) to a correct smc rom (which will work afterwards), and if you are unable to load a rom in an emulator, ie play the game (as millions on the world do), then the complex nature of editing the main sprite of the game is not for you. Try something easier and work your way up.

Could you possibly send me a savestate?
We could, but what's the point of learning then. And this is such an easy task.
By the way: any (clean original not patched) Alttp rom loads in any version of Zsnes. And the savestate and loadstate can be achieved by pressing of one button, which can be even mapped to a joystick.

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Re: Minish Cap Zelda

Post by Puzzledude on Thu 14 Jan 2016 - 17:10

Just to give a clue what your goal/wish is:
Look at these 5 sprites of Link/Zelda.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

So you see, your goal/wish is to do something similar as in the 4th sprite, which was drawn by the user On Swift wings, also known as Crimson (a spriter obviously).

But we are usually using the adopted sprite drawn by DaiSuke (also a spriter) in Alttp hacks. They mannaged to make this difficult task. So you see there are 8x28=224 sections of 16x16 pixels of Link's head/body/states to redraw (in your case into Zelda).

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Re: Minish Cap Zelda

Post by NinjaGamer on Thu 14 Jan 2016 - 17:25

I deleted the rom that wasn't working and downloaded some new ones. I'm sure they'll work now. I have sprite sheets of MC Zelda that I can use as a reference. I understand that it is a long process to do and I'm fine with that. It seems like all I have to do is redraw all of Link's sprites and then save it. That seems simple enough unless the process requires coding or hexing.

By the way, I know how to work an emulator and load games on them. I'm not idiot, I understand that it was a bad rom. I'll create a savestate now and experiment editing Link's gfx. Thanks for all the info so far I have a lot to do. If I run into any problems or have questions I'll let you know.

How do I go to address 8000 in YY-CHR?

This is probably a stupid question but do I use Lunar Magic like in the SMW world tutorial?

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Re: Minish Cap Zelda

Post by Puzzledude on Thu 14 Jan 2016 - 18:19

It seems like all I have to do is redraw all of Link's sprites and then save it. That seems simple enough unless the process requires coding or hexing.
Yes that's it, no coding involved. You don't even need to decompress the gfx into a bin file, you can work directly on a rom, since the main sprite is not compressed. But there is a palette issue obviously, which can later be edited with Hyrule Magic.

How do I go to address 8000 in YY-CHR?
Just scroll with the small red side bar on the left (it is barely seen) or hold the down arrow and the address will start building up. It is however not 8000. The main sprite in the Rom is at 80200 (in hex), which is like a quarter way from the start.

This is probably a stupid question but do I use Lunar Magic like in the SMW world tutorial?
No, ignore Lunar Magic, this is just how to insert the edited gfx into a SMW rom after editing. As you can see this is very easy in SMW if compared to Alttp. In your case you can edit the smc directly, so the edit is already in, no need to extract and reinsert (compress/decompress) anything. If you wish to edit other gfx you need to do that, but with zcompress (which is dos based).

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Re: Minish Cap Zelda

Post by SunGodPortal on Thu 14 Jan 2016 - 18:31

The main sprite in the Rom is at 80200 (in hex), which is like a quarter way from the start.

Note: That extra 200 is only if it has a header.
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Re: Minish Cap Zelda

Post by Puzzledude on Thu 14 Jan 2016 - 18:36

SunGodPortal wrote:
The main sprite in the Rom is at 80200 (in hex), which is like a quarter way from the start.

Note: That extra 200 is only if it has a header.
Oh yea, lol, exactly. See the problem was, that when you need to insert the gfx the standard way, with zcompress, you are required to have a headered rom (since zcompress only works if the rom is headered), so all my roms in that folder were headered. So yes, actual address is 80000.

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Re: Minish Cap Zelda

Post by SunGodPortal on Thu 14 Jan 2016 - 18:57

(since zcompress only works if the rom is headered)

Not anymore, remember? Fusoya was nice enough to finally make a new version that no longer required it. That was so nice of him.
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Re: Minish Cap Zelda

Post by Puzzledude on Thu 14 Jan 2016 - 19:05

SunGodPortal wrote:
(since zcompress only works if the rom is headered)

Not anymore, remember? Fusoya was nice enough to finally make a new version that no longer required it. That was so nice of him.
Very Happy
Yes I forgot about that too. Still using the old one and I haven't yet tested the new version and how it works with the file size.

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Re: Minish Cap Zelda

Post by SunGodPortal on Thu 14 Jan 2016 - 20:45

I can't turn Link into Zelda with the limited palette given to me in YY-CHR.

16 colors is all you get and that is actually 15 colors and one transparency (with at least one color, the hands, that has limited use because of how the game changes it's color once you find the gloves). Still, that's plenty for a SNES character.

You said that I'll be further editing palettes in hyrule magic, is this only for tunics?

You can edit all of the palettes in the game. And I feel I should point out that while the palettes you will be needing are labelled "clothes" they are in fact for the entire character.
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Re: Minish Cap Zelda

Post by NinjaGamer on Thu 14 Jan 2016 - 20:59

You only get 15 colors in YY-CHR. But there is a way to edit Link in paint if Ghillie was able to do so. Is it somehow possible to save Link's sprite sheet and edit them in paint to change Link into Zelda and overwrite the file to have it saved as Zelda? I know there were some people who further edited Ghillie's MC Link before releasing it. I'm not sure if they used paint or not though.

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Re: Minish Cap Zelda

Post by SunGodPortal on Thu 14 Jan 2016 - 21:09

You only get 15 colors in YY-CHR.

I just want to make sure that you understand that this will also be your in-game limit (if you are working on A Link to the Past). There is no way around this without rather complex coding (splitting the main character's body into two separate sprites and then assigning a palette to each of them).

Is it somehow possible to save Link's sprite sheet and edit them in paint to change Link into Zelda and overwrite the file to have it saved as Zelda? I know there were some people who further edited Ghillie's MC Link before releasing it. I'm not sure if they used paint or not though.

Sprite sheets tend to be dimension accurate so it is entirely possible to edit the sheet in paint and only use a program like YY-CHR to insert them into the ROM with minimal headaches. You can edit them in another program and then copy/paste into a tile editor like YY-CHR.
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Re: Minish Cap Zelda

Post by NinjaGamer on Fri 15 Jan 2016 - 2:20

How would I obtain the sheet to be able to edit it in paint? Also, what's the purpose of the snapshot in YY-CHR?

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Re: Minish Cap Zelda

Post by SunGodPortal on Fri 15 Jan 2016 - 2:27

How would I obtain the sheet to be able to edit it in paint?

Google image search is probably the quickest, easiest way to find a sprite sheet.

Also, what's the purpose of the snapshot in YY-CHR?

It just saves an image of the tiles currently in the viewer. But couldn't you also figure this out by trying?
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Re: Minish Cap Zelda

Post by NinjaGamer on Fri 15 Jan 2016 - 2:36

Cool, thanks. I found Link's parts in models resource. Also, I did try messing with it which is why I wanted to ask.

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Re: Minish Cap Zelda

Post by SunGodPortal on Fri 15 Jan 2016 - 2:39

Cool.

Even if it saves an image of what is in the viewer I'd still say it's a better idea to download a sprite sheet. As I've mentioned, they tend to be accurate and all the ones I've seen for this game were even in the exact arrangement as in the ROM.
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Re: Minish Cap Zelda

Post by NinjaGamer on Fri 15 Jan 2016 - 2:43

Thanks. I'm hoping the one I just downloaded will work fine once I edit it. I edited the snapshot a bit already actually. I can just use what I have so far as a reference. I'll post a screenshot soon.

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Re: Minish Cap Zelda

Post by NinjaGamer on Fri 15 Jan 2016 - 2:53

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

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Re: Minish Cap Zelda

Post by SunGodPortal on Fri 15 Jan 2016 - 3:01

Looking good so far and it appears to be the proper dimensions and arrangement.
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Re: Minish Cap Zelda

Post by NinjaGamer on Fri 15 Jan 2016 - 3:08

Thank you. The problem is that it's a snapshot. I downloaded Link's parts from spriters resource..but if it's a png image how will I get it into the game? Only rom images (which us basically the rom) will work right?

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Re: Minish Cap Zelda

Post by SePH on Fri 15 Jan 2016 - 3:13

Here... made those videos before earlier today, translates how I do my stuff!



You really don't need to go through the hassle of editing everything through yy-chr when it comes to link's sprite!



Editing in paint shop pro 9.0 ftw!

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Re: Minish Cap Zelda

Post by SunGodPortal on Fri 15 Jan 2016 - 3:32

Phew... I'm glad you stepped in. You have way more experience with this than me.
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I personally would still use YY-CHR for the character sprites, but that's just me. I would rather not use it for the rest of the GFX though because that means having to always use Zcompress as a middle-man.
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Re: Minish Cap Zelda

Post by NinjaGamer on Fri 15 Jan 2016 - 12:34

Oohh a video tutorial! Perfect! I can follow the instructions with ease this way. I have a few questions though. What did you open with Paintshop Pro and how did you open it? I downloaded PaintShop Pro 9.01 (since I have Windows 7) 30 day free trial. Would this be possible to finish in 30 days? If not then I can use paint.net or gimp.

Where did you get that MC Zelda sprite sheet? The one I have is a rip from duck pond but it's not layed out the same way yours is. Could you please send me that sprite sheet?

I just finished watching both videos and I have to say that was amazing! You did it so quickly and so easily! If you still have the MC Zelda sprite sheet that you used in this video that would be a HUGE help! I could start editing the rest of Link's sprites with ease!

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Re: Minish Cap Zelda

Post by SunGodPortal on Fri 15 Jan 2016 - 19:40

I downloaded PaintShop Pro 9.01 (since I have Windows 7) 30 day free trial. Would this be possible to finish in 30 days? If not then I can use paint.net or gimp.

I believe this could def be done within 30 days.

As for the program, these old versions of Paint Shop Pro are used because there are next to no programs these days that can export the edited graphics back to Hyrule Magic without corrupting the colors. It is possible to fix that in YY-CHR afterwards (fairly easy if you understand the features well enough), but that is of course an extra step that shouldn't be there.
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Re: Minish Cap Zelda

Post by Puzzledude on Sat 16 Jan 2016 - 8:11

What did you open with Paintshop Pro and how did you open it?
He opened a png image or any other image format. You open it with file/load.

I downloaded PaintShop Pro 9.01 (since I have Windows 7) 30 day free trial. Would this be possible to finish in 30 days?
Since the process is fast with Paint, this can be done, but having the sprite in all 224 states is another question. The sprite sheets for Minish-cap-Zelda might not contain all states, that Alttp past main sprite requires. You will probably need to draw some yourself, based of the Minish cap Zelda template.
Regarding the trial, you can just hex edit the correct dll to turn off the time limit.

If not then I can use paint.net or gimp.
Unfortunately no. Paint is the only program, which does not "corrupt" the colours. You could otherwise do it with any image editor, that can copy/paste partial segments of an image, but then you will get the annoing message: "this image is not in the correct dimensions or is not a 16 colour image", when trying to paste into Hyrule Magic.

Where did you get that MC Zelda sprite sheet?
On the internet. Try "Spriter's resource" site.

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