Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

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Re: Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

Post by Zero Dozer on Wed 18 Jan 2017 - 12:54

Try it again, qwerty, I've set it to public.

Puzzle, so it is like this because of the way the teleporters were placed? That's a curious one.

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Re: Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

Post by qwertymodo on Wed 18 Jan 2017 - 13:21

It's because of how they were placed, and because of how the game was coded, which was only designed to support specific placements.
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Re: Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

Post by Puzzledude on Wed 18 Jan 2017 - 13:35

Puzzle, so it is like this because of the way the teleporters were placed? That's a curious one.
Yes and no. Original authors for some reason did not program the warp to work on odd coordinates. Note, the same is valid for sprites. No sprite coordinate can ever be odd, however the editor (Hyrule Magic) takes this into account and won't ever let you place a sprite on odd coordinates, but since a warp is an object, this can be done.

The problem could easily be solved if Hyrule Magic would only let you place the warps on even coordinates. So the author did not know that and programed it so, that you can place it on any coordinate.

Do note: the original authors could also made it so, that the warps would work properly on all coordinates, but as you imagine this would be more coding.


Regarding the Ice beach jumping problem. This is solvable: the game for some reason now assumes the ice can not be jumped on (for instance as you must not land on a stone or bush). So the ice has the wrong tile property/type.
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Re: Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

Post by qwertymodo on Wed 18 Jan 2017 - 14:31

Puzzledude wrote:Regarding the Ice beach jumping problem. This is solvable: the game for some reason now assumes the ice can not be jumped on (for instance as you must not land on a stone or bush). So the ice has the wrong tile property/type.

I'm curious if that is (at least one of) the differences between tile type 14 and type 15.  Both seem to be valid for icy floors, but MoN's disassembly has a note about not really knowing what type 14 was for.  All of the indoor icy tiles are type 15, but the overworld ones are 14.  I'm going to try converting them to type 15 and see if that makes any difference.

Edit: Nope, type 15 has the same result.

Edit 2: You're definitely right about the block type though, changing that specific map16 block to type 0 fixes the jumping bug. I'll play around with other block types and see if I can find one that works properly.
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Re: Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

Post by Zero Dozer on Wed 18 Jan 2017 - 16:03

I think I am one key short in the Parallel Tower and I think the one missing key is in the Light World. How screwed am I?

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Re: Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

Post by Puzzledude on Wed 18 Jan 2017 - 16:49

I think I am one key short in the Parallel Tower and I think the one missing key is in the Light World. How screwed am I?
I don't think you are. You see 3 keys are in the Tower itself and 3 keys are in Dark/ice world. In any case, you should be able to reach the top of the Dark World Tower.

It is later when you enter the Tower in Light world, you need all these keys. I believe there are as much as 4 or 5 key doors in the Light world variant of the Tower. But since then you already have the Mirror and can go between worlds and thus can always go out of the dungeon to get all 9 keys and then come back.

So if you are in the ice world, you should be able to collect 6 keys, or at least 5 keys (can't remember correctly), or at least minimum of 3 keys. Not sure how much are needed to reach the top in the ice-world-tower (actually it is the lava area), but it should be around 3 or 4, the majority of these keys are used in the light-world-tower variant (at the secondary route on floor 7 or 9).

Edit 2: You're definitely right about the block type though, changing that specific map16 block to type 0 fixes the jumping bug. I'll play around with other block types and see if I can find one that works properly.
I'm not sure if Nintendo ever meant for the player to jump and land on the ice, as type 14 is default for the overworld ice tiles, so no other type exists, that would not have this bug. If I remember correctly I don't think that the ALTTP has overworld ice tiles at all, only indoor ones. So obviously this now becomes problematic and not easy solvable, unless you fence that ledge.


Last edited by Puzzledude on Wed 18 Jan 2017 - 16:56; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

Post by qwertymodo on Wed 18 Jan 2017 - 16:55

Well, indoors at least, it's totally possible to jump from a ledge onto ice, Ruto's Fortress has at least one such ledge. You're right about aLttP not having any overworld ice tiles. If nothing else, I can either fence off the ledge, or just extend the non-icy ground patch below the ledge to match the right-hand side. I'll play around with the tile types first though.
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Re: Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

Post by qwertymodo on Wed 18 Jan 2017 - 17:36

qwertymodo wrote:The skull sprite is weird.  There's actually an extra sprite "attached" to the bottom of the main sprite, so there's the skull, the shadow, and then this:


(click to zoom)

You can see the additional sprite is actually a completely separate sprite on the far right column, 3rd and 4th rows, but it acts like it's part of the skull sprite, or is "stuck" to the bottom of it, the end result looks like a glitchy shadow.  Any ideas? Ohmygod

I've confirmed it with the original v1.1 ROM as well, so it's not my doing.

I figured this one out.  If you look in the Compendium doc at sprites #D3 and #D4, you can see that the skull jaw is located in the very bottom-left corner of the gfx set, which is almost identical between the two sets, except it looks like one is for the light world and one is for the dark world (?)  The set with the bomb starts at 03A000 in YY-CHR, and the set with the jaw starts at 03F000. I'm going to try reverting the gfx back to the jaw at 03F000 and then try and trigger a hidden bomb to see if they show up correctly or not.  Is it at all possible to override the RNG to make hidden bombs show up more frequently, or even to guarantee them?
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Re: Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

Post by qwertymodo on Wed 18 Jan 2017 - 17:47

Bingo




Still need to check the hidden bombs though...
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Re: Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

Post by qwertymodo on Wed 18 Jan 2017 - 19:01

Bummer, it does break the ground bombs.  The question now is, do the ground bombs actually occur in the dark world?  I can look through HM to see if there are any manually placed (which is what I did here to test), however, I need to figure out where the random placement is done when cutting grass/bushes to see if they are allowed in the dark/icy world.  If not, great, but if they are, the solution is to fix the gfx so that the skull jaw is loaded, and then remove them from the icy world "prize packs" or whatever they're called.  Basically, ground bombs and "alive rocks" can't coexist.

Without skull fix:


With skull fix:
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Re: Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

Post by qwertymodo on Wed 18 Jan 2017 - 19:18

New idea:  I didn't realize that there was a hole under a grave in the light world cemetery.  Currently, it drops you into a room with a single fairy, then you exit into the cave in the northeast corner of the cemetery, with 3 more fairies that you can reach just by entering that cave.  That's kind of a useless room. I think I'd like to repurpose that hole to drop you into the church basement, like in the original aLttP, which would allow you to go back for the boomerang in case you missed it the first time through.  I'll have to slightly rework the original cave in HM so there isn't a door on the ledge that you can no longer reach, but I think it's a good idea.
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Re: Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

Post by assassin17 on Wed 18 Jan 2017 - 19:53

did somebody say grass and bushes?

http://assassin17.brinkster.net/zelda3_guides.htm

fun fact: a career test taken in junior high school said i'd become a landscape architect.  mowing my parents' lawn was the closest i'd come until these documents.
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Re: Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

Post by qwertymodo on Wed 18 Jan 2017 - 20:06

assassin17 wrote:did somebody say grass and bushes?

http://assassin17.brinkster.net/zelda3_guides.htm

That is 100% exactly what I needed.  According to that, the tables I need are at 1A/FBBB for the light world and 1A/FBC3 for the dark world, which, by default, says that the ground bomb is NOT an option for random selection in the dark world.  I just need to check that it is still true in PW, and verify that no ground bombs are manually placed in the icy world, and I can safely make the gfx change.  At least, I think so...
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Re: Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

Post by Zero Dozer on Thu 19 Jan 2017 - 0:36

While I was playing...


There are some more graphical bugs you can see when you fight this one boss in Saria's Gardens.


What a beautiful, bugged goo.

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Re: Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

Post by qwertymodo on Thu 19 Jan 2017 - 0:43

Zero Dozer wrote:While I was playing...


There are some more graphical bugs you can see when you fight this one boss in Saria's Gardens.


What a beautiful, bugged goo.

Yeah, I'm aware of those, but have no idea what's causing them. Those have been there since v1.0.

On the bright side, I managed to change the cemetery hole to drop you into the church basement, so you can go back and retrieve the first boomerang if you missed it.  Because of the change I made to fix the red boomerang turning into 300 rupees, if you miss it the first time through, you get the blue boomerang in the icy world instead, then when you go back, you'll get the red.  This way you can always get the red one even if you miss it the first time around.

In doing so, I discovered the cause of the previously mentioned bug where getting picked up by the wallmaster in Din's Catacombs would cause the screen to go dark.  Basically, the game just isn't designed to allow you to fall into dark rooms with the lantern overlay.  There's a bug that enables and then immediately disables that overlay in the "fall into a hole dungeon entrance" subroutine.  Getting picked up by a wallmaster calls that subroutine for the "dropping you at the entrance" animation.  Fixing that bug causes a new minor bug where the overlay isn't in the right position for a short moment right as the room loads, but that's better than what it was.  Maybe I'll bother to fix it, probably I won't.  I'll need to do another full playthrough to be sure it doesn't cause any side effects, but I don't think it will.
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Re: Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

Post by Puzzledude on Thu 19 Jan 2017 - 6:24

New idea:  I didn't realize that there was a hole under a grave in the light world cemetery.  Currently, it drops you into a room with a single fairy, then you exit into the cave in the northeast corner of the cemetery, with 3 more fairies that you can reach just by entering that cave.  That's kind of a useless room.
This room actually has the golden bee, if you bounce into the statue with the shoes.

There are some more graphical bugs you can see when you fight this one boss in Saria's Gardens.
That's a known bug that occurs in many Z3 hacks, however it is impossible to tell what it's causing it. For instance same bug is in GoW final crystal dungeon - sometime it appears, sometimes not. Usually it appears after you drop down the hole and on Zsnes, it did not appear in snes9x though.

What a beautiful, bugged goo.
Now you know why I removed the slime altogether in the remodel version. It's a gfx problem, not sure if this is fixable without messing with other gfx.

Basically, the game just isn't designed to allow you to fall into dark rooms with the lantern overlay.
Exactly, this is why the first room of dungeons never is a dark room, if there are Wallmasters in the dungeon. So I would say this is a designing problem and not really a bug.
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Re: Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

Post by Zero Dozer on Thu 19 Jan 2017 - 14:09

I think I was supposed to be able to reach the other side with the Hookshot.

https://www.facebook.com/zero.dozer/videos/1211181045635588/?ref=notif¬if_t=video_processed¬if_id=1484852947429079

As an extra, I can't even fall on that hole.

EDIT: ...AAAAAAND I can go through the hole now that I defeated the boss on the room beside it.

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Re: Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

Post by qwertymodo on Thu 19 Jan 2017 - 23:01

Yeah, sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. I can't view FB videos on mobile, so I wasn't sure if you meant that one or the one at Lake Saria to reach the last bottle, which is just a real pain to hit the right spot. You did find the solution, you have to beat the boss first.
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Re: Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

Post by Trovsky on Thu 19 Jan 2017 - 23:44

FaceBook? Yuck, pick a website that isn't evil like vid.me.

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Re: Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

Post by qwertymodo on Fri 20 Jan 2017 - 0:54

Figured out the graphical issue with Vitreous.  It uses gfx tiles from the title screen.  Unfortunately, HM can't edit PW's title screen.  Does anybody have any documentation on the title screen so I can try and fix it manually?  I think there are a few other tiles that could be used instead.

Here are the tiles it's using, vs the originals.


And here's the result


(The 7's were the big tip-off)
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Re: Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

Post by Puzzledude on Fri 20 Jan 2017 - 9:29

Does anybody have any documentation on the title screen so I can try and fix it manually?
Maybe this is the cause of the glitched title screen. To edit it manually without HM is close to impossible. Maybe all of those Parallel Remodel haters could now finally understand how hard it is to edit this game and what the main problem of PW series actually is - the inaccesibility for editing tools. The latter is the main reason why the game has problems and is somewhat stuck in that state. It simply was not meant to be edited.


I think there are a few other tiles that could be used instead.
Yes, however only certain gfx sets can be loaded onto the title screen. This can again be altered, but this will surely mean more problems.

The most pragmatic solution is actually to remove the Vitreous slime altogether and thus leave the title screen as it is.


You see, it is a similar problem with what was shown in that video. The player could not cross that gap, since it had an unvisible Khold Stare-boss shell. When you defeat this boss, the shell gets "transported" into another room. Thus the entire HM room should only have the boss when it comes to Khold stare and Trinexx bosses, since they both use shells, which get transported.

So again this can be regarded as a "glitch" or at least a problem when you can not get across a pit and are hitting an unvisible ice-shell.

This is how I debugged it in the Remodel: invisible shell gets fenced in:
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Re: Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

Post by Zero Dozer on Fri 20 Jan 2017 - 13:20

So this explains why there's ice falling on me on that entrance, and why I couldn't cross that gap.

And I'm saving Vid.me for when they allow me to post over half-hour videos without having to prove I'm a legitimate channel so I can transfer my entire video channel there.

EDIT: I found the Parallel Tower key I had forgot... In the Ice World, at the Church basement. Isn't it marvelous?

Zero Dozer
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Re: Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

Post by qwertymodo on Fri 20 Jan 2017 - 17:06

Ok, so here's an overlay of the correct Vitreous gfx and the buggy ones.  Basically, it's pretty clearly just the outline and the 7's. The "x" tile in the bottom-center is correct, it's actually part of the floor underneath.

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Re: Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

Post by qwertymodo on Fri 20 Jan 2017 - 18:04

Ok, looking at VRAM again, that bottom row of tiles which is incorrect is NOT overwritten by the title screen tiles, that row in VRAM contains different tiles during the title screen.  I think that 4th row is all animation tiles, and it's like it's loading the wrong set of animation tiles. I need to find the right tiles in YY-CHR to know for sure whether the gfx have actually been overwritten, or if it's just loading the wrong ones.
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Re: Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

Post by qwertymodo on Fri 20 Jan 2017 - 18:13

AHA, FOUND IT, AND THE TILES ARE INTACT!

I was correct, it's just loading the wrong animation set.  It's loading the first set here, when it should be loading the third set.  Does anybody know how to fix this?

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