Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

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Re: Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

Post by qwertymodo on Sun 18 Dec 2016 - 2:36

Dangit, I keep forgetting byuu switched the board to private. My bad.



Like I said, that was an unfinished screenshot, I've since fixed up the corner, it just took awhile doing it directly in hex, then I never got around to posting a final after shot.
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Re: Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

Post by Linkmon99 on Sun 18 Dec 2016 - 23:37

Just checking, this is parallel worlds 1.2 not remodel 1.2?
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Re: Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

Post by Erockbrox on Mon 19 Dec 2016 - 0:23

Linkmon99 wrote:Just checking, this is parallel worlds 1.2 not remodel 1.2?

no, but there might be plans on doing this.
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Re: Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

Post by qwertymodo on Mon 19 Dec 2016 - 2:20

I've said several times, my code is in a format that should be easily portable to Remodel (though not all of it will be relevant, such as the room changes, but those are easy to comment out). I probably won't release the Remodel update myself, but I'll send it all to Puzzledude if he wants it.
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Re: Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

Post by Erockbrox on Mon 19 Dec 2016 - 22:39

Honestly I think puzzle should do an updated version of the remodel. This way it satisfies everyone.
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Re: Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

Post by SunGodPortal on Mon 19 Dec 2016 - 22:40

Erockbrox wrote:Honestly I think puzzle should do an updated version of the remodel. This way it satisfies everyone.

Come on Erock. You of all people should know that you can't satisfy everyone.
Very Happy
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Re: Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

Post by Trovsky on Mon 19 Dec 2016 - 22:58

Erockbrox wrote:Honestly I think puzzle should do an updated version of the remodel. This way it satisfies everyone my OCD.

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Re: Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

Post by qwertymodo on Tue 20 Dec 2016 - 3:16

For the 600th time, Remodel is almost definitely going to happen. I made sure my changes were easily portable SPECIFICALLY for that reason. This has just been an almost exclusively solo project so far, aside from the help I've received in the forum threads and Conn's original patches, so I've only focused on the original. Once it's done, we'll port it to Remodel. Even if puzzledude doesn't want to, I'll do it myself, but if it comes to that, it probably won't be tested much, if at all, since Remodel doesn't interest me personally.

If you want to help, play the game and report bugs. Not opinions, not wish lists, bugs. I have a hard deadline coming up, and I'd like to catch as much as possible. Otherwise, just wait for the release like everyone else.
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Re: Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

Post by Conn on Tue 20 Dec 2016 - 5:54

I asked Puzz per mail whether he's going to port your code for remodel:

Will look into it and release the Parallel Remodel DX, or is it called 1.2, if indeed there interest in doing this.

I think Puzz is a bit frustrated about all the negative feedback his previous work caused, and that is the reason why he's not so enthusiastic here (what I can completely retrace).
I think if we motivate him enough, he surely will release a 1.2 of PR Wink
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Re: Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

Post by Puzzledude on Tue 20 Dec 2016 - 6:52

Even if puzzledude doesn't want to, I'll do it myself, but if it comes to that, it probably won't be tested much, if at all, since Remodel doesn't interest me personally.
I hope you won't do that, since overwritting my 1.1 which was heavily tested and had around 40,000 downloads on romhacking, with a 1.2 version and not test it at all, is not a smart thing to do.

There is some heavy responsibility on you when you change the game version, since your update deletes the previous version, and editing roms has this interesting effect of bringing in possible new bugs, like we could see with fastrom. So I have no idea why Euclid agreed to 1.2, and not the separate PW DX.

I will port this to the Remodel, however I'll call this a DX version as a separate file, since what is happening here basically is an Addendum and I'll surely not test the game (again) on both quests, just to get the same critique on dungeon design and also because the Cane of Byrna paradox, since the DX does not fix that.

I also won't be releasing this on romhacking for the upper reasons, while on this site there is a lot smaller audience, thus you can understand why I am not enthusiastic about this. But it seems there is some small interest in PR DX, so I'll port it.

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Re: Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

Post by qwertymodo on Tue 20 Dec 2016 - 8:33

Sure, I didn't mean that I would just throw it on RHDN without any testing, just that I didn't personally want to do a full playthrough. I think a release here would be great to get that testing, but I get the feeling that once PW releases, there will be more people over there asking for a Remodel update as well. I'd be willing to release it myself over there so any flak over design decisions doesn't get directed at you, but I do think it should get released there. Also, I'd rather not go with the DX name. It's a direct continuation of the project, even if it's not by the original authors, they certainly helped and for PW they gave their blessing to call it 1.2 instead of DX. It's also a direct continuation if your work that you had called 1.2. I had considered calling it 1.3 instead because of that, but since 1.2 never got released outside of here, that just felt a little weird to me.
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Re: Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

Post by Puzzledude on Tue 20 Dec 2016 - 8:50

Nice, of course if the Remodel is also called 1.2, a playthrough of both quests must be done on at least one emulator before the release happens (this will not be rushed for a 31st of this year but later). I made an "unofficial" 1.2 (PW and PR) which fixes the title screen, shovel, digging, flute fix etc, but since it wasn't tested not even on 1 quest, these versions were not submitted to replace the tested 1.1.

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Re: Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

Post by qwertymodo on Tue 20 Dec 2016 - 9:13

Ok, I can agree to not release until both quests are played through. I don't know whether or not I'll be the one to do it, but as you said, I'm not constrained to a specific date like with PW, so I'll get it done when it's done.
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Re: Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

Post by Conn on Tue 20 Dec 2016 - 9:19

Looks like everything is gonna be fantastic Very Happy

What's the byrna paradox, btw, and should it be implemented for pw 1.2 as well?
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Re: Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

Post by qwertymodo on Tue 20 Dec 2016 - 9:41

I think he means the way that the cane is almost a requirement to beat the game but it is possible to skip it and not be able to go back for it until much later, making the game almost impossible for some players. It's a design issue, not really a paradox, and it falls into the category of things I can't and/or won't fix because it's not simple to do.

As far as the testing goes, my original comment about not testing was just a careless comment made while half asleep. Puzz is absolutely correct that we shouldn't replace a known tested version with an untested one. Thankfully, the changes made should be the same in both PW and PR, so the PW testing is a good start. But as I said, PR will release after a full playthrough test, and if any issues come up after the PW release, I may do a minor update like what SePH is doing with Conker, and that will be tested as well.
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Re: Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

Post by Zanak on Tue 20 Dec 2016 - 13:28

Late to the topic, been busy with battlefront 2 mods.

IMO, I love the overworld of this game, I really only think the dungeons need a redesign, I know Seph was doing that awhile back in 2012 but then that changed into parallel universes followed by Conker.

I also feel it would be helpful to guide the player a little more around the overworld, I know in the beginning I got lost and had trouble finding the flippers, even though they were in the most obvious place, I just didn't bother to walk up that far.

But really, the most complaints from this romhack come from the dungeon design. That really needs a design overhaul, but it would be nice to keep the original feel (like impas ways being a maze, and nayru's bay having tons of water).
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Re: Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

Post by qwertymodo on Tue 20 Dec 2016 - 13:58

Yes, the most common complaint is the dungeons, and the overall difficulty. A full dungeon overhaul or other design changes like forcing the collection of the Cane of Byrna would make this a 2.0 release, this is just 1.2, if that makes sense. With how much work it would be, most people would rather start from scratch and make their own game entirely, so I doubt we'll ever see that 2.0.
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Re: Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

Post by Puzzledude on Tue 20 Dec 2016 - 14:01

I actually agree what you said Zanak. I would say the main reason for the Remodel being in a current state is that PW series are somewhat different roms than Alttp and its "usual" derivates, such as master quests etc. And at that time I was unable to construct a dungeon in a separate rom and port it into PW/PR, since everything needs to be done in hex. So just a simple sprite change take a long time, which would otherwise be a couple of seconds in a normal rom opened in HM.

However overhauling PW/PR's dungeons is tons more difficult, since you need to adopt them to PW/PR's overworld and entrances and global room and do all in hex. It is a lot easier to build from scratch on a HM compatible rom - ie work on another project (which is not PW/PR based).


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Re: Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

Post by Zanak on Tue 20 Dec 2016 - 16:45

Damn I didn't know dungeon editing was hex based Sad. It would be great even if you guys could modify the existing dungeons, cut out the extra slack and difficulty, but I'm not sure how difficult that is.
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Re: Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

Post by SunGodPortal on Tue 20 Dec 2016 - 17:32

Zanak wrote:Damn I didn't know dungeon editing was hex based Sad

This is only true if you need to exceed the capabilities of the existing editor (Hyrule Magic).
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Re: Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

Post by Puzzledude on Tue 20 Dec 2016 - 18:45

Damn I didn't know dungeon editing was hex based.
This is valid only for PW/PR.
If players would have seen how much knowledge and work was neccesary to edit one single room of PW, they would look upon PR in a different way. Note: PR was done before the RT (room transfer) existed.

But unfortunately players will only see the design and difficulty. They have little interest in the romhacking and knowledge itself.

This is only true if you need to exceed the capabilities of the existing editor (Hyrule Magic).
Yes. PW/PR are such roms.

It would be great even if you guys could modify the existing dungeons, cut out the extra slack and difficulty, but I'm not sure how difficult that is.
With my current knowledge it is possible to overhaul all PW/PR dungeons to completely new dungeons. Thanks to RT this is a lot easier now. But the main problem is compatibility. New dungeons need to be "in place" in a global room grid where the old dungeons were and the item-gaining order should be the same, since this is connected with the overworld.

From a technical point of view this is not so difficult, but there is this thing to actually constructing all dungeons from scratch in other separate roms, compatible with HM and with the global room grid of PW. From my point of view it is better to actually thus make an independent hack, which is no longer connected with PW/PR "complex" Rom.

I guess we could call this the PW problem: the game is somewhat stuck in its current possition. If you take a look the way it is coded, you can see, that this simply is unfriendly for editing. Bringing new dungeons in simply is not as "friendly" as it would be otherwise, while bringing the well-designed overworlds and inserted ASMs, Pal edits out, is again not happening. The result is a game with "pimped" overworlds (as SePH has put it) and with the "old" dungeon design (which was not pimped), which pretty much is listed in a similar way in most critiques (and they are right), while the situation of the rom will most likely not change.

For instance: from a rookie romhacker point of view, PW is uneditable entirely. Since the overworld and dialog editing is also hex based in PW/PR. Actually: everything is hex based (or hex transfer based, or hex gluing based) in PW/PR.


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Re: Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

Post by qwertymodo on Thu 22 Dec 2016 - 1:06

Long shot, but if anybody is actually playtesting this and feels like helping out with tracking down one particular question, playing in a debugger with breakpoints, set a read breakpoint on $0DD6B4 and take a screenshot if it triggers anywhere outside of the ending credits.
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Re: Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

Post by qwertymodo on Thu 22 Dec 2016 - 5:40

I have partially managed to figure out how to disable changing directions while running on ice, in order to make the boots less overwhelmingly overpowered in icy dungeons.  It's working fine in the dungeons, but apparently icy tiles on the overworld, such as just outside of Sheik's Hideout, or at the Icy Beach, don't update $7E0114 like the ones in dungeons do.  If anybody knows how to get the attribute type of the current tile that the player is standing on the way $7E0114 works in dungeons, but on the overworld, then I can make this work consistently between OW and dungeon icy tiles.
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Re: Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

Post by Conn on Thu 22 Dec 2016 - 6:26

Try $0348 instead of $0114 Wink
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Re: Parallel Worlds v1.2 PUBLIC RELEASE!!!

Post by qwertymodo on Thu 22 Dec 2016 - 17:53

$0348 cycles through several values, and always seems to be 0 when I test it inside the pegasus boots code
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